Should we create a companion site that demonstrates the outcome of our site building?

Duck said

Well my thought is the site is for the purpose of creating the subject matter not as a reference. I don't think there is many books in existence that reference a static site anywhere. The book is the reference. You don't really need a site to back it up. The photo's in the book are all that is needed especially if there is no interactivity at the site.

Why would I need to go to a site to see that it looks just like the pic in a book I read?

The only reason to have a site that I would like to see beside the pics if I were to play with that site but that is not what we are talking about anyway and even then a simple demo site is sufficient there is no need for it to match the book.

I don't think I am explaining it properly, sorry.

I see it as we wanted to create a book and the style (or subject matter) of that book is to mimic the process of creating a useful site that utilizes as many features as possible of ocPortal. In order to help us build the books material we are thinking about building a site to take pics of for the book. Since we are going to build it anyway, why not make it functional? Once built it is pretty much useless (if it's not functional) except to confirm that all the pics you saw in the book match the website, but, who needs that? People need to play to learn. The Demo site is perfect for that there is no need for the book site to be used for that purpose but it would serve a better purpose if it were used for that then a static site for sure. I just think that would be redundant though.

I think we're seeing the same fence, but from opposite sides.  

By all means create a live site like you suggest to build the book from. But also create a static site for when the book has been published. I see nothing wrong creating both a static site and a separate, live site to sell.

Sometimes pictures are not worth a thousand words. Sometimes something that can be played with and looked at from different sides but never changes is needed.

If we teach the reader how to set up a test site they can use that while they work their way through the book. The static companion site could then be used by the reader for comparison with the test site.

First, I believe that we are getting too hung up on this. The book it self is the most important factor and any companion site only serves to reinforce that learning experience.

I see both sides of the argument and actually agree with both. However, I think that the priority  needs to be a static site that matches the book. For many, pictures in a book are a flat representation of what is displayed on-screen. The reader of the book should be able to see what something looks like on-screen that matches exactly what the book portrays. Blog entries and other content forms could be used to explain stuff on-screen. So I think this needs to be a priority over over a dynamic site.

That said, it would be great if we could give the reader his own individual sandbox to play in where he can experiment. Now we are talking about additional resources: both the resources to host multiple demos and the resources to build the base site (we still have only one person, Duck, signed on to officially contribute to this project. I'd like to pursue this avenue as well as I think it would be a fine teaching aid but I feel we will need to work out a bit more and my focus is on the book. I'd call this a stage 2 production unless we can enlist the support of the needed people to just get the book written.

Bob

BobS said

That said, it would be great if we could give the reader his own individual sandbox to play in where he can experiment.

Disagree. Under ideal conditions this would work, but as you said we don't have the resources. As I've said before, teach the reader to set up his own test site on his sever of choice and he can play forever.

sholzy said

BobS said

That said, it would be great if we could give the reader his own individual sandbox to play in where he can experiment.

Disagree. Under ideal conditions this would work, but as you said we don't have the resources. As I've said before, teach the reader to set up his own test site on his sever of choice and he can play forever.

I believe this comes down to the following trade-off: include a chapter about setting up test server environment or providing a plug-and-play sandboxed environment that even the most casual of users could use.

I am not sure what the best approach is. I can see your argument since one should set up a test site for testing upgrades and such anyway.

Bob

It seems there are two seperate issues here.

First, should there be a site that could progress in development as the reader progresses through the book.

Second, should a test site be provided to new users.

I would say yes to the first, and no to the second.

If hosting resources are a problem, I will provide a hosting account, and donate the purchase of a domain name.

psydoc said

It seems there are two seperate issues here.

First, should there be a site that could progress in development as the reader progresses through the book.

Second, should a test site be provided to new users.

I would say yes to the first, and no to the second.

If hosting resources are a problem, I will provide a hosting account, and donate the purchase of a domain name.

Thanks for the generous offer. I will see what resources we can muster within ocProducts first but may well be back to you on this.

The matter of the content of the companion site is  contingent on a number of things including the hosting resources to allow for multiple concurrent sand-boxed instances so that each user has his own playground. But, even then, many people want to see what the final target is in advance.

I am open to all suggestions in this area but, to be honest, no one has swayed me heavily in one direction or the other.

Bob

You are welcome.

Regarding content of the companion site structure, multiple sub-domains, each accessible to OCP personnell only, could freeze site development to correspond to the book content.

Using such a scheme would allow readers to go to the referenced domain to experience the user side of OCP.

To prevent unwanted changes being made from the Admin Zone, a video tutorial of the steps taken to that point could work well.

psydoc said

To prevent unwanted changes being made from the Admin Zone, a video tutorial of the steps taken to that point could work well.

agree with that

Thanks, Harry-S.

I like using the old training philosophy of tell the student what you are going to teach them, write it out for them, then show them. This process improves material retention.

Thats a way I like to do also, they get it almost faster is my believe. I work with autist youth and this way you get the results to.


Harry

Too much time wasted on this topic.

As it stands this is the best approach (in terms of what the current Collaborators are wanting but my opinion is different):

1 Companion Site. Locked down after being built.

We are not making multiple sandboxes.

Discussion over.

Sorry but we are wasting time beating a dead horse here.  

Duck said

Too much time wasted on this topic.

As it stands this is the best approach (in terms of what the current Collaborators are wanting but my opinion is different):

1 Companion Site. Locked down after being built.

We are not making multiple sandboxes.

Discussion over.

Sorry but we are wasting time beating a dead horse here.  

I agree. What is the point of making multiple sandboxes? It is just one more headache to manage and I think the benefits would not be worth the effort..

Teach the reader how to make his own test site and problem solved. Provide a chapter on how to do this and let the reader decide if he/she wants to create a test site on a server of their choice. Why should we determine what the reader should or should not do?

The best idea I think I've read so far is separate links/subdomains for each chapter. That would allow presentation on what the finished product for each chapter. I believe psydoc is the one who made that suggestion but please note if the credit belongs to someone else.

While I appreciate that this seems to be going in circles, I have said from the beginning that the companion site is something that can be done either as a basic site and then augmented or not done at all until the book is complete. The primary goal of this project is to get the book written.

As for beating a dead horse, I would rather that these issues be addressed now rather than later. Chris's timeframe for publishing the book was that it be concurrent with the release of v10 and we are not even at v9beta. So we have some time to think through these issues in advance and try to get them right. I certainly would like to get them addressed soon as writing and editing the book will take some time but let's make sure our foundation is solid.

Bob

BobS said

The best idea I think I've read so far is separate links/subdomains for each chapter.

Completely disagree here. Links in the book to a pertinent section of the site yes. Subdomains = absolutely overkill and a waste of time and resources.

Duck, how else are we going to provide a working site that is concurrent with the book chapters?

As far as resouces, I am willing to devote some server space to accomplish this, especially if it helps promote OCP.

Duck said

Links in the book to a pertinent section of the site yes. Subdomains = absolutely overkill and a waste of time and resources.

Have to agree with Duck here (I think)!

Let me unravel my peanut-sized brain to see if what Duck is saying is what I think as well. I'm sure he will put me right if I am not!

• Links in the book to a pertinent section of the site … We mention something in the book, then provide a link to a visual take on the discussion. Yes?
• Subdomains = absolutely overkill… I've lost the plot as to who mentioned it first, but that doesn't matter just now. I thought when I first read the submission that it meant that the book-person would be directed to the change discussed (whether an Admin tweak, or a theme tweak, or something else), or how else are we to draw the readers attention to the change unless it is to ANOTHER site (or domain)?

Then I got to thinking we could use ocPortal itself to meet this demand; why not use ZONES? Each zone would represent the change and possibly be ID'd by the chapter and verse where the change is first suggested, e.g.

• /ourdomain.com/oursite/index.php ← the site
• /ourdomain.com/oursite/ch1a6/ ← the zone that displays the 'changes' discussed in chapter 1, para a, subpara 6

Don't know if that is clear 'nuff. I'm sure somebody will come up with a concise reason why it can't be used, and/or even offer a better solution or explanation …!!

 

@psydoc - 1 working site is all that is needed

@Fletch - Interesting idea on the Zones but the way I see it the companion site should both mirror the book and as well be set-up to reflect what a typical user might do to create a site. This Zones idea would crush both those concepts.

@all - Maybe it's the mathematical programmers logic thinking side of me that's confusing people here but I look at it this way:

Let's pretend the book has 20 chapters

With a subdomain for every chapter that means there is installation of ocPortal for each subdomain each with approx 5000 files each taking approx 4 hours to set up each and who knows how many hours to maintain.

So now we have 100 000 files sitting on a server and 80 hours of manpower to produce and then maintain and not to mention a mess of confusion to the noob who goes to explore the rest of the subdomain after he visits a particular chapter only to discover it is way different than the other 20 subdomains  about the book too???

Anyway, I DO NOT volunteer to setup or maintain a separate subdomain for any chapter I participate on so I'll write the chapter but I don't care who is going to take care of that whole subdomain to manage it afterwards as long as it is not me.

I am a bit distressed that more discussion has gone into how to handle a companion site than there have been offers to write or edit the book. My feeling at this juncture is that we get a solid book framework in place and get the writing started. We can maintain notes for inclusion of screenshots or links to website with something like:

{**screenshot this_screenshot**}
or
{**link description_of_page_to_link**}

Let's get focused on the book. The rest will fall into place as we start getting some writing and editing done.

Bob

No progress will be made on the book till the project manager maps out and assigns tasks.

Since we have no project manager yet, you are suggesting that we can make no progress. That's ridiculous.

I laid out my thoughts on this almost a week ago in this post. Assuming I am the project manager, I will be following this guide with a few tweaks. There is nothing preventing anyone from volunteering to write a chapter that they feel they could be particularly effective in writing. This would benefit whoever becomes the project manager.

The book will most likely be structured exclusively like a classic textbook where subsequent chapters build on the content in the previous chapters. There is a reason that this approach is nearly universal and it is because it works. If I am the project manager, I will likely want to write the introduction and the brief. Rather than a glossary of terms near the beginning of the book, I would move the glossary to the end of the book with any other appendices, and in its place, I would include a "List of important terms" as part of the introduction along with an explanation of the conventions the book employs for presenting material.

People need to stop creating roadblocks and assuming how dumb our readers are. Our task is to write a book, much like any other text where we we build people's knowledge of and confidence with a specific area - in this case, ocPortal.

Tell me (or whoever) what area you would like to cover so we can move forward. If you feel like covering a more advanced topic, pitch yourself for that chapter and even for inclusion of specific items in that chapter. It seems we should have a number of people willing to tackle the more advanced chapters. Toss your name in the ring if you'd like to pen any other chapter.

Bob