What hosting environment do you use for ocPortal

In basic I'am agree with Fletch, make a section Basic and a section advanged.

Basic: how to build my site to a working website.

Advanged: Go deeper into more aspects of Ocportal.

Fletch said

And if you (not personal - anybody) don't think this manual ought to be aimed at the newbie, then what the hell are we doing attempting to write it in the first place?

I hope that hasn't come off too negative …!!

 

I think we may need to define "Newbie".

See I think some people here are think of "Newbie as someone who barely knows how to turn a computer on let alone build a website. Others think a newbie is someone who understands a lot of concepts to owning a website but is New to ocPortal. Let's, for arguments sake, call the former Newbie1 and the later Newbie2.

While I think we should consider some content aimed at Newbie1 I feel that no matter how well the book is written the market segment we will attract (and retain) of this category will be really really slim. on the other hand Newbie2 (and above experience) will likely be the lions share of users we will attract and have the best chance of retaining and therefor should be the primary focus of the level of content written.

I would be willing to bet that everyone (or in the high 90's percentile) who is a part of this community now (and many of those who came excited but left) had/has some experience with managing a website or CMS already.

I too have been intimidated at times and considered going back to something like "Nuke" for it's simplicity. With a good book I am eve less likely to do that. However I would also bet if I had no prior knowledge of a CMS (like Nuke or WP etc) and was just starting out I doubt even your book would keep me here. Let's face ocPortal is not a complete "Newbies" first choice. It is very complex in comparison to many others and no book could ever eliminate that intimidation factor for the common Newbie1. We would be lucky to convert 1 in a thousand of that Newbie I believe.

Newbie2 is our Market because they have seen some of the competition therefor they understand the advantages ocPortal has (or at least will once they start reading). They are the ones we have a better chance of converting. Probably at least 20 - 40% chance or higher if we target them right and do a good job.

Duck said

Fletch said

And if you (not personal - anybody) don't think this manual ought to be aimed at the newbie, then what the hell are we doing attempting to write it in the first place?

I hope that hasn't come off too negative …!!

 

I think we may need to define "Newbie".

See I think some people here are think of "Newbie as someone who barely knows how to turn a computer on let alone build a website. Others think a newbie is someone who understands a lot of concepts to owning a website but is New to ocPortal. Let's, for arguments sake, call the former Newbie1 and the later Newbie2.

While I think we should consider some content aimed at Newbie1 I feel that no matter how well the book is written the market segment we will attract (and retain) of this category will be really really slim. on the other hand Newbie2 (and above experience) will likely be the lions share of users we will attract and have the best chance of retaining and therefor should be the primary focus of the level of content written.

I would be willing to bet that everyone (or in the high 90's percentile) who is a part of this community now (and many of those who came excited but left) had/has some experience with managing a website or CMS already.

I too have been intimidated at times and considered going back to something like "Nuke" for it's simplicity. With a good book I am eve less likely to do that. However I would also bet if I had no prior knowledge of a CMS (like Nuke or WP etc) and was just starting out I doubt even your book would keep me here. Let's face ocPortal is not a complete "Newbies" first choice. It is very complex in comparison to many others and no book could ever eliminate that intimidation factor for the common Newbie1. We would be lucky to convert 1 in a thousand of that Newbie I believe.

Newbie2 is our Market because they have seen some of the competition therefor they understand the advantages ocPortal has (or at least will once they start reading). They are the ones we have a better chance of converting. Probably at least 20 - 40% chance or higher if we target them right and do a good job.

I agree with most of this.

I think a total n00b (newbie 1) would not be looking to build a website on their own without some help from another person who has experience. This is not the person we want to go after because they are probably not ready/capable of an undertaking like setting up a website using a CMS.

The book should cover from n00b (newbie 2) to advanced (with advanced the only thing being debated as to include in this book). Each chapter should range from n00b to advanced, beginning with hand-holding the n00b, walking him though basic steps to complete that task on up to more advanced functions of that chapter.  Not all chapters is this doable, but most chapters it is. Allow the reader to determine where they want to stop at in each chapter.

We should be providing the tools in this book to allow the reader to install, setup/configure, theme, and manage a website (including setting up and using a test site) using ocPortal. That is the bare minimum this book should cover. If we include intermediate skill level content in each chapter, we can  then tie that into a second book aimed at a more advanced skill level.

Semantics, Duck.

My take on it is that if somebody has actually bought a domain name, has contracted a hosting package, is looking to build, or already has built a website, has been told, or read about CMSs, will almost certainly be in the category that is able to switch on their computer.

Seriously, discussing grades of 'newbie' is reaching the heights of procrastination.

Can't we simply agree that anybody starting out with ocPortal is going to need all the help they can get? Isn't that why this idea surfaced in the first place?

 

@Fletch What I was trying to get across was that I think your thought of the noob is different from Bobs. Bob (sorry Bob I don't think youère the only one who interprets Noob this way so I apologize for singling you out) wants to guide the extreme noob carefully and is afraid of giving him more advanced topics like Cloning, OCCLE etc (which really is not that advanced a topic for intermediate level type noob). Where as I believe that is even more important areas to be covered.

 This is why I am saying maybe we need to define N00b because not everybody here I believe has the same visions of what that means and what writing differences it means for one over the other. I am just trying to make sure everyone is on the same page of skill levels when we are talking.


But anyway I think it is time for me to be quiet now and just wait for instruction from PM what I am supposed to do. When you have a task for me let me know.

The whole point of a CMS like OCPortal is it allows people to achieve a lot with comparatively little.  If we aim the book too high, we'll be aiming it at people like ourselves - people who took the time and made the effort to learn without a book anyway.  We'd be preaching to the converted.

I would aim this book, at the lowest level, at those who have never hosted a website before in any form.

The book is to get them started.  To get them invested in OCPortal.

Having a chapter that gets increasingly harder, allowing the user to stop at their discretion, would just make the whole system seem too difficult.  Imagine if a teacher said 'I'm going to be talking about harder and harder things this lesson.  As soon as you stop understanding just leave and come back for tomorrow's lesson.'  How is the pupil expected to know what they need to know?  They'll just end up feeling stupid.

We should be able to give the book to a competent computer user just out of high school, who is totally comfortable using MS Word and Chrome and Facebook and installing Skyrim, but are totally put off by the word 'code'.  They should simply follow it through, and at the end of it they have a well featured, fully functioning website.  A platform that they can then build on.

This can then lead to advanced topics, either in later chapters in this book or, more realistically, a future book.

Look at all the forum joiners who arrive incredibly enthusiastic, but within a few posts are clearly struggling, and then suddenly disappear.  Go back and look at their websites - they're nearly all on Wordpress now.  If they have the skills to build a site with Wordpress, surely they should have been able to manage OCPortal with our help?

O said

The book is to get them started.  To get them invested in OCPortal.

Yup!

 

Thats the way I think also, a basic for people who are starting witch ocportal

The biggest challenge in writing this book is that those writing it already have a good understanding of the software and that many assume that the user we are trying to attract will also be at a certain skill level which includes comfort with creating and maintaining a web site. I disagree with these assumptions quite strongly. As Fletch mentions, if someone can buy a domain and get to the ocPortal site, we want to retain them as a "customer." Chris also hinted at this with his one post in the tracker where he talks about stripping most of what is now the basic installation of ocPortal away so that it would be a good alternative to WordPress.

This book should assume little other than the reader can read and understand at the high school level and that he understands the basic process to set up a website (buy  domain and hosting). It is our job with this book to provide the step-by-step instructions so that this person can succeed using ocPortal and thus grow the community.

Just as an aside, I will tell you that I used commercial e-commerce software that did a better job of attracting and retaining people who were setting up their first website than what ocPortal does and they were paying up-front. Now CMS software is far more wide-ranging and difficult than e-commerce software and ocPortal offers a raft of available features to further challenge the first-time CMS user, but I am completely of the belief that this book can and will increase our numbers at this skill level and will cause others to consider ocPortal as a result.

One of the two primary reasons for doing this book was to attract and keep users who previously downloaded and installed ocPortal only to become confused. As O mentioned, we have seen many who come here with a great deal of enthusiasm and some questions only to see them disappear, presumably because ocPortal was too much a challenge, I believe we can write a proper book which makes those challenges rewarding so that essential newbies are instead encouraged to stay with ocPortal not only for the current features but because it offers the a well-conceived avenue to future growth for their website.

As I mentioned in another thread, I'd rather take the time to sort these issues now than to deal with them after the writing has begun. We have the time right now to make good choices and my primary concern right now is to see that the choices we make now will serve us well in the future.

Bob

Fletch said

Semantics, Duck.

My take on it is that if somebody has actually bought a domain name, has contracted a hosting package, is looking to build, or already has built a website, has been told, or read about CMSs, will almost certainly be in the category that is able to switch on their computer.

Seriously, discussing grades of 'newbie' is reaching the heights of procrastination.

Can't we simply agree that anybody starting out with ocPortal is going to need all the help they can get? Isn't that why this idea surfaced in the first place?

 

         

Now, where is the switch to turn this thing off.  

BobS, I totally agree.

btw, if you want someone to review a chapter, I am about as illeterate as they come.

ok, so I know it is spelled "illiterate".

O said

Having a chapter that gets increasingly harder, allowing the user to stop at their discretion, would just make the whole system seem too difficult.  Imagine if a teacher said 'I'm going to be talking about harder and harder things this lesson.  As soon as you stop understanding just leave and come back for tomorrow's lesson.'  How is the pupil expected to know what they need to know?  They'll just end up feeling stupid.

Just because you think I'm a n00b, I'm not capable of deciding how much I want to accomplish and how far into a chapter I need to read to be able to accomplish that goal?

People, stop trying to decide how smart/stupid or capable a n00b is and let the n00b decide that. If a chapter is divided into "skill levels" (or "color coded" as someone had already mentioned) then a n00b can stop at the basic level in each chapter and end up with a functional website if he chooses, or he can continue on to something a little more advanced when he is comfortable in doing so. Let the reader have the opportunity to grow with the book instead of us limiting what he can do because we feel he is not capable of knowing more.

When someone new to ocP using the book to set up and maintain their site sees what can be done with ocP by reading/browsing through the next skill level portion of the chapter, we very well could have just sparked a greater interest in ocP and now that reader wants to try out some of those new ideas he just read about.


"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime." Which are we trying to do, feed or teach? Isn't the purpose of this book to teach how to use ocP? How can we teach that if we limit what the reader can learn?

By providing just what is needed to set up and maintain a site we are only feeding him. But, by providing the tools to be able to grow we are teaching him. You have to remember we have a forum to help those who have decided to take the next step in skill level in the book and don't quite understand everything in that skill level.

sholzy-

I agree with you in general and that still seems a possibility in terms of the book design. However, The most important aspect of this book is to attract and retain new ocPortal users. Those with skills, as Chris already pointed out, will find their solutions using whatever resources are available and their own wit.

Bob

I'm still not convinced about each chapter going from basic to advanced, even with sholzy's good point about it being clearly defined. (Sorry, I missed that bit.)  

It has the fundamental flaw that each chapter would not be able to directly reference or build on the site from the previous chapter.  This is because each reader's site could be different, depending on whether they followed basic, advanced or a mixture in the previous chapters.

My personal feeling is the more advanced parts could come in later chapters.  So a basic user could stop after very few chapters and have a basic site, while more advanced users could carry on into more advanced chapters, producing a more fully features or customised site.  These chapters could still use the basic/advanced colour indictors, for example.

O said

I'm still not convinced about each chapter going from basic to advanced, even with sholzy's good point about it being clearly defined. (Sorry, I missed that bit.)  

It has the fundamental flaw that each chapter would not be able to directly reference or build on the site from the previous chapter.  This is because each reader's site could be different, depending on whether they followed basic, advanced or a mixture in the previous chapters.

My personal feeling is the more advanced parts could come in later chapters.  So a basic user could stop after very few chapters and have a basic site, while more advanced users could carry on into more advanced chapters, producing a more fully features or customised site.  These chapters could still use the basic/advanced colour indictors, for example.

Depends on the style of book: reference manual (with a section on how to install and configure), or a step by step, hand-holding guide (installing, setting up, customizing, administering) with each chapter being a step.

The former would have a section at the beginning, stepping the reader through the installation and configuration process and then suggest what chapters should be read next to customize the site depending on what the reader wants to do..

The latter would step the reader through the same process but sequentially chapter by chapter.

Not much difference between the two other than how the book is laid out and how the chapters are written.

Your way would work for the "step by step chapter" style, and my way would work for the "reference manual" style. Both would accomplish the same end result, probably with the same ease of use.

Personally, I'm very much in favour of the 'step by step' approach, but I acknowledge that it's a personal preference, and I can appreciate why the reference manual style may well be preferable to sholzy and others.  

I will defer to BobS as PM on this.  

(Translation:  If Bob chooses 'step by step' and it goes well, I can take some credit for pushing the idea.  If it goes wrong, we can blame Bob for choosing it in the first place.  

Oh, the joys of being a Project Manager.  I feel for you, Bob.     )

I'd like to do the book as a step-by-step activity-based book as suggested in O's outline. That is, customizing the basic look of your site will touch on a number of topics and parts of ocPortal but would explain how to substitute a new header without going into a complete discussion of theming which would occur in a later chapter.

I am thinking that we could use callouts to briefly discuss more advanced techniques, probably pointing to the chapter they occur in. They could also be used to point people to existing documentation on the ocPortal site.

Bob

Although I think we have gotten off track of the topic title here in discussing structure of the book (perhaps this discussion belongs in "Narative Structure" or "Scenario" threads rather than here) I will say I think we should be writing the book in a "MODULAR" fashion with each module have different levels of expertise with each level using a STEP by STEP approach of explanation.

By this I mean set it up based on tasks a user would likely want to do and write the chapters to go with it.

ie:

Styling your site

Beginner Level: Topics:
Change Header.
Change Theme images
Install a new theme
Adding Blocks

Intermediate Level: Topics:
Use Theme Wizard.
Equations VS Shift
CSS Editing with Editor
Saving and Exporting your new theme

Advanced Level: Topics:
Template Modifications
Tempcode Programming
Manual CSS editing

That sort of thing

Excellent.

Fleshing out the bones makes soooooo much difference! There's even scope to 'shuffle' topics and chapters if vehement objections arise.

 

Duck said

By this I mean set it up based on tasks a user would likely want to do and write the chapters to go with it.

ie:

Styling your site

Beginner Level: Topics:
Change Header.
Change Theme images
Install a new theme
Adding Blocks

Intermediate Level: Topics:
Use Theme Wizard.
Equations VS Shift
CSS Editing with Editor
Saving and Exporting your new theme

Advanced Level: Topics:
Template Modifications
Tempcode Programming
Manual CSS editing

That sort of thing

I was originally thinking that we should just put all the "beginner's" stuff early in the book with later chapters covering more advanced topics. However, with you and sholzy pushing me, I am definitely warming to this presentation format. As mentioned by someone, we could even color code the various parts of each chapter.

Unless I see some well-considered objections, I think we should structure the book in this manner.

Thanks to Duck and sholzy for the "encouragement" to follow this approach. I was really thinking about this last night considering how to handle the catalogs area since the new options presented in  v8 are more advanced (and probably rarely used) but still need to be covered. I think this format will work for that.

Bob