another v8 observation

Chris,
I know you've got to be sick of me posting by now.  And i don't know if this is something to do with running a screen reader or what.

I have my and my wife's personal site Chip & Tracy's Place, running a version of ocP v8.0.1, which is an upgraded 7.1.6 installation.  I noticed while trying to add a calendar entry today, using IE8, that when I clicked on the "Save" button nothing happened.  I tried the ALT-U hotkey as well with no effect.  However, I fired up FF12, and went through the adding a calendar entry just fine.  I've also noticed that in past versions you, while using a screen reader, could simply press the space bar on an option and select it, but now in many places it might work and may not and end up having to rout the mouse pointer to the button and left click the option.  i've noticed this to be true in adding gallery categories, where you have to select a parent, same thing with news categories.  I'll go back and check, but now that i write this, it may be same thing with the calendar, I may have to rout the mouse pointer to where my screen reader is positioned.

This is in no way a complaint, but a post to let other screen reader users know about this behavior, so that it may keep them from having to post a thread for no reason.  Again for others that are interested I'm a Window EYES user and can't speak to how JAWS behaves in ocP

Hi,

I'm looking at this now.

Quick summary for myself:

• AJAX Tree list: space key not working to expand nodes
• IE form submit with Ctrl+U not working

IE form submit with Ctrl+U not working

On IE it's ALT+U that you need to use. Different browsers handle access keys using different modifiers (alt, ctrl, etc). We just specify the letter, the browser specifies the modifier needed for it.

I was using alt-u in IE and alt-shift-u in ff

chipster said

I was using alt-u in IE and alt-shift-u in ff

Works for me . All I can think s some kind of bug in the software, or possibly the WYSIWYG editor was highlighted at the point and eating up the keypress.

AJAX Tree list: space key not working to expand nodes

I've had a play with this using keypresses, and yes it is a bit fiddly. Essentially it is a set of radio buttons. But there are interspersed buttons for expanding nodes, causing those nodes to load in via AJAX. When tabbing it through the buttons do select, and pressing 'enter' on them causes node expansion/contraction. Pressing 'space' on the radio buttons (which actually are invisible to sighted users) does activate them. One key thing I found (pun unintended) was you can't tab between radio buttons. Once you get to the first radio button using tab you then need to use the arrow keys to change which radio button is focused.

Now I'm going to talk about future resolutions…

1. In the next version certain hidden options will be promoted to proper accessibility options in the ocPortal configuration (already discussed this one).
2. I am tidying up the labels on these tree-list buttons to explain what they do better (currently they just say expand/contract and then the category name)
3. I am going to add an additional configuration option for disabling the tree-lists and replacing them with normal lists.
4. In version 9 we're actually improving accessibility further. We make more use of lists, place labels a bit better, remove some presentational symbols from the HTML, and make better use of paragraphs instead of line breaks. Screen reader output will be cleaner.

Chris Graham said

chipster said

I was using alt-u in IE and alt-shift-u in ff

Works for me . All I can think s some kind of bug in the software, or possibly the WYSIWYG editor was highlighted at the point and eating up the keypress.

AJAX Tree list: space key not working to expand nodes

I've had a play with this using keypresses, and yes it is a bit fiddly. Essentially it is a set of radio buttons. But there are interspersed buttons for expanding nodes, causing those nodes to load in via AJAX. When tabbing it through the buttons do select, and pressing 'enter' on them causes node expansion/contraction. Pressing 'space' on the radio buttons (which actually are invisible to sighted users) does activate them. one key thing I found (pun unintended) was you can't tab between radio buttons. once you get to the first radio button using tab you then need to use the arrow keys to change which radio button is focused.

I'm used to the way a screen reader handles radio controls and yes it is true once on a list, with browse mode off, you can't tab through the options and have to arrow down through them.  However usually a regular button will let you hit enter on it, or tap the space bar and trigger it.  Of course, the buttons I'm refering to may not be regular buttons.  For example when you are making a choice in, say, the add gallery or forum editor, and it has the root category closed and needs to be expanded.  My screen reader says, "expand … gallery home, or forum root.  I guess I was expecting the tree expansion button to work like a normal form button, but it isn't I have to rout the mouse pointer to it and left click on it.  It's not a problem.  Just doesn't act like most screen reader users would expect it to.

BTW: in your sig you have "Expand: Was I helpful?" and "Expand: Follow me on Twitter" and I've noticed ones like that in the admin zone of my site.  Is that done using the menu comcode tag?

Chris Graham said

Now I'm going to talk about future resolutions…

1. In the next version certain hidden options will be promoted to proper accessibility options in the ocPortal configuration (already discussed this one).
2. I am tidying up the labels on these tree-list buttons to explain what they do better (currently they just say expand/contract and then the category name)
3. I am going to add an additional configuration option for disabling the tree-lists and replacing them with normal lists.
4. In version 9 we're actually improving accessibility further. We make more use of lists, place labels a bit better, remove some presentational symbols from the HTML, and make better use of paragraphs instead of line breaks. Screen reader output will be cleaner.

That all sounds awesome.  Makes me wish I knew anything about php so i could help.  however, if there's ever anything i can do in any way please don't hesitate to let me know.

I'm used to the way a screen reader handles radio controls and yes it is true once on a list, with browse mode off, you can't tab through the options and have to arrow down through them.  However usually a regular button will let you hit enter on it, or tap the space bar and trigger it.  Of course, the buttons I'm refering to may not be regular buttons.  For example when you are making a choice in, say, the add gallery or forum editor, and it has the root category closed and needs to be expanded.  My screen reader says, "expand … gallery home, or forum root.  I guess I was expecting the tree expansion button to work like a normal form button, but it isn't I have to rout the mouse pointer to it and left click on it.  It's not a problem.  Just doesn't act like most screen reader users would expect it to.

I can't really speak for why it isn't working for you but I can tell you something. There are many kinds of button in HTML:

• input element submit button
• input element button
• input element image button
• button element
• fake button using an 'a' element

Different ones get used in different kinds of situations, depending on how things visually look, and if Javascript is involved.

The tree list uses "input element image button". The submission forms use "input element button" when Javascript is enabled and "input element submit button" when it's not. Now I think from an accessibility point of view they should be treated the same in terms of activation, and we're not doing anything to block it, but I don't know how the tools you're using work exactly.

BTW: in your sig you have "Expand: Was I helpful?" and "Expand: Follow me on Twitter" and I've noticed ones like that in the admin zone of my site.  Is that done using the menu comcode tag?

Comcode 'hide' tag.

That all sounds awesome.  Makes me wish I knew anything about php so i could help.  however, if there's ever anything i can do in any way please don't hesitate to let me know.

We always need promotion .

Chris Graham said

We always need promotion .

That i can do, and do.  However, I can and will also step up to the plate and do more.