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This is just cool (completely unrelated to ocPortal)

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Posted
Item has a rating of 5 (Liked by Chris GrahamLiked by sholzy)  
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#85855 (In Topic #17610)
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Community saint

I just love this Kickstarter project for a digital guitar to learn on.

gTar: The First Guitar That Anybody Can Play by Incident --- Kickstarter

Bob
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Community saint

Another iGadget for the iSheep.  :P  No worries, I'm wearing my asbestos undies.  :thumbs:  

I think it's cool, but it probably would have wider appeal if it wasn't tied to the iPhone, but had it's own in-built system that could download the songs through wifi.

Steve
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sholzy said

Another iGadget for the iSheep.  :P  No worries, I'm wearing my asbestos undies.  :thumbs:  

I think it's cool, but it probably would have wider appeal if it wasn't tied to the iPhone, but had it's own in-built system that could download the songs through wifi.
I suspect the decision to leverage the iPhone was strictly based on the economics of the device and trying to keep the build cost down. They could have chosen another device but that would have resulted in a smaller potential customer pool.

I imagine doing their own version would have nearly doubled the cot of the finished product.

Bob

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Community saint

I doubt it would have added much more than about $50 to the cost. I imagine about the only extra needed is storage and a processor for the application (which the iPhone was providing).

Steve
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Posted
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#85864
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Community saint

And all the programming and possible patent hurdles. Even at $50 cost, that amount would have minimally tripled to $150 extra at retail.

I truly think this was a matter of the path of least resistance. If this is successful, I would not be a bit surprised to see them follow up with something similar to what you suggest using the profits derived from this product.

Bob
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BobS said

And all the programming and possible patent hurdles. Even at $50 cost, that amount would have minimally tripled to $150 extra at retail.

I truly think this was a matter of the path of least resistance. If this is successful, I would not be a bit surprised to see them follow up with something similar to what you suggest using the profits derived from this product.

Bob

What programming and patent hurdles? The creators of gTar also created the iPhone app. They are using the iPhone as a processor to process the notes and to produce sound. It wouldn't surprise me if the electronics in it was mostly capable of this already.

For $25 dollars they can use the Raspberry PI as the processor and add a storage card for a few buck more. The cost of creating the software for this would have been about the same as creating for the iPhone, maybe even cheaper.

This was intentionally aimed at iPhone users for whatever the reason.

Steve
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Community saint

Creating iPhone apps is pretty straight-forward compared to developing at the processor level and than making it all pretty. I think you are being quite unrealistic in your estimation of software development cost for a "from scratch' implementation.

I'd be willing to bet that the decision came down to two very simple factors: addressable market (iPhone owners are willing to spend money which has been documented many times) and "time to market".

Bob
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BobS said

Creating iPhone apps is pretty straight-forward compared to developing at the processor level and than making it all pretty. I think you are being quite unrealistic in your estimation of software development cost for a "from scratch' implementation.
uh, this is what this software (both iPhone app and internal to gTar) is - developed from scratch. Most of the people involved have worked at either Microsoft or Cisco and have extensive backgrounds in hardware or software development so I don't think this would be much of a hindrance.

The Raspberry Pi is a computer using a processor from a Nokia cell phone so there wouldn't be much different in developing the software than it was developing for the iPhone.

I'd be willing to bet that the decision came down to two very simple factors: addressable market (iPhone owners are willing to spend money which has been documented many times) and "time to market".
Like I said, this was aimed at iPhone users for whatever the reason. It definitely wasn't aimed at mass appeal. The retail price is expected to be above $450.

Steve
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Community saint

My point was that this is cool use of technology (regardless of what processor it is based on).

It's one thing to be an avid advocate of Open Source, it's quite another to just be anti-Apple/anti-"iGadget" (to use your word). Apparently, the people involved with this project have concluded that the "iSheep" (again, your word) will have the wherewith-all to pay the $450 allowing them to make their margins and hopefully build a business.

Bob
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What I'd like to know is why they need a 5000 mAh battery to just run a bunch of LEDs + sensors and an interface board for only 6-8 hours?

The iPhone 4/4S itself only has a 1432/1420 mAh battery.

Do you have a Samsung Galaxy S / Galaxy S II ? If so, why not check out my ScreenFree FM Radio .
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temp1024 said

What I'd like to know is why they need a 5000 mAh battery to just run a bunch of LEDs + sensors and an interface board for only 6-8 hours?

The iPhone 4/4S itself only has a 1432/1420 mAh battery.

That's a good question. You'd think with that much juice, they'd provide a speaker.

Bob

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BobS said

My point was that this is cool use of technology (regardless of what processor it is based on).
And I agreed right from the start. I am a gadget geek so the cool factor is even higher.

It's one thing to be an avid advocate of Open Source,
Are you implying I'm an avid advocate of open source? And what does that have to do with this? Just because I run a site dedicated to opensource and free software doesn't mean i'm an avid advocate. I'm just as likely to buy closed source as I am to use free opensource software. I use whatever gets the job done.

 it's quite another to just be anti-Apple/anti-"iGadget" (to use your word). Apparently, the people involved with this project have concluded that the "iSheep" (again, your word) will have the wherewith-all to pay the $450 allowing them to make their margins and hopefully build a business.

Bob
Just because I said iGadget doesn't mean I'm anti-Apple. In fact I'm quite a fan of the technology that Apple has developed and have own several Apple computers over the past 20+ years.

My point was this could have had a wider appeal by not limiting it to iPhone users, but by making it self-contained for probably the same cost. I don't think the $450 price tag would have been a limiting factor to anyone (iSheep, Micro$oft fanbois, Linux zealots) who wants to learn to play. I certainly would have seriously considered one of these, but I'll never go out and get an iPhone just so I use it.



Steve
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Posted
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iSheep, Micro$oft fanbois, Linux zealots

 :lol:


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Community saint

temp1024 said

What I'd like to know is why they need a 5000 mAh battery to just run a bunch of LEDs + sensors and an interface board for only 6-8 hours?

The iPhone 4/4S itself only has a 1432/1420 mAh battery.


I'm thinking maybe they are also providing power to the iPhone, this way your phone is still charged after sitting around the campfire playing songs for 4 hours.

Steve
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BobS said

It's one thing to be an avid advocate of Open Source, it's quite another to just be anti-Apple/anti-"iGadget" (to use your word).

Let me ask you this. If Chris had said "iGadget", would you have even brought up the anti-Apple bit? And, If I had never mentioned what my site was about would you have even thought about me being an avid opensource advocate?

[Edit]
Sorry, Chris, for using you as an example, but I think the response would have been different since you're known to use Apple computers and you're held in high regards by most on here.


Last edit: by sholzy

Steve
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sholzy said

BobS said

It's one thing to be an avid advocate of Open Source, it's quite another to just be anti-Apple/anti-"iGadget" (to use your word).

Let me ask you this. If Chris had said "iGadget", would you have even brought up the anti-Apple bit? And, If I had never mentioned what my site was about would you have even thought about me being an avid opensource advocate?
Actually, it was the "iSheep" remark that made you sound anti-Apple.

I did, of course, factor in what I know about you – it is natural to try to find context for people's actions or words.

I posted this because I thought it was a cool project. I'm an Apple user and I never even gave the fact that it used an iPhone any thought until you mentioned it. I am assuming that they made choices with their eyes wide-open, even if it is just to leverage the marketing advantage afforded by being basically a special-purpose iPhone dock. They did the research, ran the numbers and made choices just as you have previously made choices on how to best get a job done. I respect them for their efforts. If someone else wants to take a run at doing it as a standalone device, more power to them. Competition is good (as long as it respects IP).

People always have the idea that they know more about how to run a business than those doing it. I come from a family that has run its own businesses and have started two of my own (non-internet businesses). I have heard countless suggestions for ways to improve my family's or my businesses from people who haven't a clue about structure, cost, marketing expenses or countless other particulars that were factored into our business decisions.

I think we've pretty much worn this topic down. All the joy of the interesting object at hand is gone and we are left with the tedium of bickering. I suggest we both just let go of this.

Bob
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Posted
Item has a rating of 5 (Liked by Chris Graham)  
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#85891
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BobS said

sholzy said

BobS said

It's one thing to be an avid advocate of Open Source, it's quite another to just be anti-Apple/anti-"iGadget" (to use your word).

Let me ask you this. If Chris had said "iGadget", would you have even brought up the anti-Apple bit? And, If I had never mentioned what my site was about would you have even thought about me being an avid opensource advocate?
Actually, it was the "iSheep" remark that made you sound anti-Apple.
I know you, Chris, and Robbie (and maybe a few others) are Apple users, and the reason I said that was to get a rise out of one of you.  :lol:   That is also why I said I'm wearing my asbestos undies. I figured it would be you because Chris seems too laid back to get into a flame war over something like this and I know Robbie is also a jokester but I wasn't sure if he would or not.  :)

I did, of course, factor in what I know about you – it is natural to try to find context for people's actions or words.
So how well did that work out for you?  ;)

I posted this because I thought it was a cool project. I'm an Apple user and I never even gave the fact that it used an iPhone any thought until you mentioned it. I am assuming that they made choices with their eyes wide-open, even if it is just to leverage the marketing advantage afforded by being basically a special-purpose iPhone dock. They did the research, ran the numbers and made choices just as you have previously made choices on how to best get a job done. I respect them for their efforts. If someone else wants to take a run at doing it as a standalone device, more power to them. Competition is good (as long as it respects IP).
It is a cool project, and I gave you a thumbs up for posting it. The first time I looked at it I didn't notice it was for the iPhone either, which prompted my first post.

I'm sure they made most of their decisions with eyes wide open and it wouldn't surprise me if they change courses a few times either.

People always have the idea that they know more about how to run a business than those doing it. I come from a family that has run its own businesses and have started two of my own (non-internet businesses). I have heard countless suggestions for ways to improve my family's or my businesses from people who haven't a clue about structure, cost, marketing expenses or countless other particulars that were factored into our business decisions.
People also assume others don't know anything about business.

I know very well the business aspects as I've started a few brick and mortar types along with 2 internet based, plus being involved in two family businesses. I'm 3 years into designing a product for another business idea I have in the works.

One thing I've learned about suggestions is it costs nothing to listen to them and you're never obligated to use any of them. Suggestions, just like opinions, are like a$$holes - everyone has one. And most of them stink.

I think we've pretty much worn this topic down. All the joy of the interesting object at hand is gone and we are left with the tedium of bickering. I suggest we both just let go of this.

Bob

Actually, I was rather enjoying the debate over how this could have been a better gadget if it hadn't been turned into an iGadget. :)

Steve
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Posted
Item has a rating of 5 (Liked by sholzyLiked by BobS)  
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Chris seems too laid back to get into a flame war over something like this

I stay impartial and open-minded on all things ;).

I think iPhones are better than Android phones, and Macs are slightly better than good PCs – but both cost a premium and tie you up to some extent, and they still have quirks (e.g. even on Lion Mac's are terrible at merging folders).

If someone cares greatly features and freedom and price, they should go with non-Apple products – but I would contend that 99% (including myself) have what they need in the Apple ecosystem, and people thinking otherwise mostly like the freedom to be geeky about their kit (that's fine, but I'm too busy). Sure, anyone can point to something that Apple ties up (e.g. Flash), but it's rarely been an actual practical problem to me, and I contend when most people get upset about it it is mostly an ideological thing (again I'm too busy for that).

I would rather have a clean experience on top of a powerful and well-designed system than layers of messy features I never use. That really does matter, the iMac or iPhone is a joy to use, and if you use computers a lot professionally and need to be very efficient it is worth it in my opinion. It is important the alternatives exist though, because those ideologies antithetical to Apple's are very important, and obviously as an Open Source company we share a lot of those.

I stopped using my iMac given the hard disk died – definite disadvantage to a mac being it is not user-serviceable (if you do want to service it yourself you need a special screwdriver, suction cups, and a can of compressed air)! Windows 7 is a wonderful operating system, so I am happy using my laptop with external (dual) screen and good quality Microsoft keyboard&mouse (I always hated the tiny non-ergonomic ones that came with the iMac).


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  • If my reply is too Vulcan or expressed too much in business-strategy terms, and not particularly personal, I apologise. As a company & project maintainer, time is very limited to me, so usually when I write a reply I try and make it generic advice to all readers. I'm also naturally a joined-up thinker, so I always express my thoughts in combined business and technical terms. I recognise not everyone likes that, don't let my Vulcan-thinking stop you enjoying ocPortal on fun personal projects.
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I set myself up for trouble saying I think iPhone is better than Android, so I'll qualify that a bit. I am an Android user actually. But where Android phones having selling points it is usually the bigger screen, or the dual processors (or whatever it is now, I don't really keep up). The truth is I don't think a phone should be larger, and I don't care how fast the processor is if the UI isn't responsive (Android is definitely less slick navigating around).

A good example of the Apple ecosystem designing stuff sanely, whilst the Android one not – on Android you have to shift applications manually from the phone memory to the SD memory because it installs everything in the wrong place. I don't know if they have fixed that yet, but life is too short to be learning quirks and paying a bit less for an experience with a bit more friction every time I use it.

(Now I need the flame retardant suit ;))


Become a fan of ocPortal on Facebook or add me as a friend. Add me on on Twitter.
Was I helpful?
  • If not, please let us know how we can do better (please try and propose any bigger ideas in such a way that they are fundable and scalable).
  • If so, please let others know about ocPortal whenever you see the opportunity.
  • If my reply is too Vulcan or expressed too much in business-strategy terms, and not particularly personal, I apologise. As a company & project maintainer, time is very limited to me, so usually when I write a reply I try and make it generic advice to all readers. I'm also naturally a joined-up thinker, so I always express my thoughts in combined business and technical terms. I recognise not everyone likes that, don't let my Vulcan-thinking stop you enjoying ocPortal on fun personal projects.
  • If my response can inspire a community tutorial, that's a great way of giving back to the project as a user.
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I've been fully absorbed into the Mac/iOS/iCloud ecosystem for a few years now. I seem to just love everything that Apple comes up with. It's not because I'm elitist, or an Apple-fanboy, it's because I absolutely love using them.

In my youth, I actually used to be extremely anti-Mac. I had never used one, or even seen one in person, yet I just hated them because I thought they couldn't run any games (and I love my games).

Then in 2007 I walked into the Apple Store in London, played with a MacBook (one of the old white polycarbonate ones), and bought it on the spot. It just blew my mind. Everything made so much sense. From the uncluttered interfaces, to the way the login box moves from left-to-right if you get your password wrong as if it was shaking its head at you, everything about it felt like it was there for a reason. Even the most mundane tasks became more fun than hassle.

When I saw the new layout of the Windows Explorer in Windows 8, I had a 'face palm' moment (The Complete Guide To Windows 8 Explorer; New Ribbon Tools And Options). How can they think adding even more buttons, that people will only use once a year, to an interface is a good idea?  O_o

I was equally amazed by the first iPhone. I watched Steve Jobs' famous January 2007 keynote, and listened to his arguments. I remember thinking 'wow, that actually makes so much sense'. I bought an iPhone on launch-night and when I had it in my hand I almost couldn't believe how awesome it was. I had all the 'cool phones' of the early-2000s, like the Motorola RAZR, but the only major improvement that I'd witnessed was the leap from black and white screens, to colour screens. Then the iPhone came along and it was indeed a revolution. A touch screen phone. The internet in my pocket. Wow.

Of course the technology is commonplace now, as everyone has jumped on the bandwagon that Apple started driving, but I still think it's amazing that my phone can do 50x more than my first desktop computer. I soon went through the iPhone 3G, 3GS, and now 4. I love them all.

Importantly, few other phones have actually managed to capture the same magic as the iPhone has. In fact, my Mum's Android phone confuses the hell out of her, and it's so buggy that she's actually been ANGRY with it because it wasn't playing ball. Never have I been angry with my iPhone. I have had two issues with my iPhones - a stuck button on my 3GS, and a camera that stopped focussing on my 4. Both were solved instantly at an Apple Store when they replaced my handset on-the-spot.

But, I'm still a Windows user too (I partition my Mac with a Windows partition). I use Windows 7 for gaming, 3D-modelling, and scanning (I bought an A3-sized scanner but it doesn't seem to have drivers that support modern versions of OS X :dry: ). Windows 7 is great - a huge improvement from the other versions…but, I have still been left in a rage with Windows on multiple occasions.

Last week I was actually about three hours into an RTS game, when my screen went black. I then heard the familiar 'chime' of the Windows shutdown sound, and then saw the familiar "Windows is installing updates" screen. I went ballistic with rage. I was like Captain Kirk in that cave in the second Star Trek movie. How can Windows dare restart itself without asking me. It's things like this which make me breath a sign of relief when I boot back into OS X. :lol:

If I had the money, I'd buy a turbocharged Windows-PC for gaming, and a Mac for everything else, but I just wouldn't feel safe leaving the Apple ecosystem just yet…but maybe Windows 8 will sway me.


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