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Moving forward with Composr

ocPortal has been relaunched as Composr CMS, which is now in beta. ocPortal 9 will be superseded by Composr 10.

Head over to compo.sr for our new site, and to our migration roadmap. Existing ocPortal member accounts have been mirrored.


Some questions and thoughts

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Posted
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#68520 (In Topic #14556)
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Fan in training

Hello,

I've installed the OCP on my local machine and have been playing a little bit but I need more information that are hard to find about the script. So I would appreciate if somebody could provide me answers. Also, below are some of my doubts and opinions.

"Unclear" licence

I am interested in detailed licence explanation:

- Am I allowed to remove logos if I create a site of my own?
- Am I allowed to perform "rebranding" if I create site for some other person or company (is it needed to pay a fee in that case)?

I think that unclear obligations contribute to smaller usage of OCPortal. Somewhere on the forum the creator of the system mentioned that VBulletin forum was popular due to the reason that logo and the name of the script were everywhere. That is maybe true, but it is PROPRIETARY software and one of the best and first in their niche. On the other side there are other GPL (completely free, for commercial usage too) scripts that are very, very popular even if they do not have any advanced features built-in in the core, or advanced features at all (Wordpress, Joomla, Drupal…)

Lack of information on other sites

The reason why I mentioned this is that I need to create a couple of sites for myself and to be prepare for some near future projects for clients. I am experimenting currently with SilverStripe (which is a realy great software) and OCPortal, that I have encountered accidentally. Yes, you have read well - accidentally! There are a few articles on Internet about OCP and that's it, nothing else. Not a single word more. If am ready to create tutorials if I conclude that OCP is easy for development and modifications.

Framework

I cannot conclude whether I can create complex custom logic. I can see that it is possible to create custom data types, catalogues, but which framework is used for creating custom modules (I cannot find any tutorial how to create and deploy modules with custom functionality)? For example, is it posible to create logic for sample application for tracking students, their tasks and professors or OCP is dedicated only to simple content publishing?

Contribution

If OCPortal satisfied my needs (together with free usage) I am ready to organize my coleagues for translating the system into Serbian language at the first place (it was official language in former Yugoslavia).

Next action would be to spread the word because I do not know anybody that use OCP :(

It would be great to have some kind of blueprint for a site creation with OCP from start to end. Believe me or not, that was the main reason why many developers and designers accepted other CMS (SilverStripe is a good example how to attract users). I can see a lot of OCP documentation for users and developers but I cannot create a whole picture about the overall process of a site creation (creating modules, menus, dynamic menus…)

Best regards
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Posted
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#68522
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Hey,

ocPortal is under a standard Open Source license, the only restriction is on redistributed forks having to attribute the fork to ocProducts. So that has no impact on users whatsoever. In fact, we even have a debrand tool inside the system that completely nukes the name 'ocPortal' from the software.

Not a single word more. If am ready to create tutorials if I conclude that OCP is easy for development and modifications.

Would be much appreciated. We have a tonne of documentation here, but we to be honest fight very hard to get noticed because most people just go with what they have heard of, chicken and egg.

I cannot conclude whether I can create complex custom logic. I can see that it is possible to create custom data types, catalogues, but which framework is used for creating custom modules (I cannot find any tutorial how to create and deploy modules with custom functionality)? For example, is it posible to create logic for sample application for tracking students, their tasks and professors or OCP is dedicated only to simple content publishing?

Look for the "Code Book", it is about 100 pages of programmers documentation. We also have published API documentation for the whole system.

If OCPortal satisfied my needs (together with free usage) I am ready to organize my coleagues for translating the system into Serbian language at the first place (it was official language in former Yugoslavia).

Next action would be to spread the word because I do not know anybody that use OCP

That would be really amazing.

I can see a lot of OCP documentation for users and developers but I cannot create a whole picture about the overall process of a site creation (creating modules, menus, dynamic menus…)

ocPortal's a huge system, so everyone tends to want to create a different thing. Perhaps the best tutorial for you is the "Designer themes" tutorial (which is quite new), coupled with the Code Book.


Become a fan of ocPortal on Facebook or add me as a friend. Add me on on Twitter.
Was I helpful?
  • If not, please let us know how we can do better (please try and propose any bigger ideas in such a way that they are fundable and scalable).
  • If so, please let others know about ocPortal whenever you see the opportunity.
  • If my reply is too Vulcan or expressed too much in business-strategy terms, and not particularly personal, I apologise. As a company & project maintainer, time is very limited to me, so usually when I write a reply I try and make it generic advice to all readers. I'm also naturally a joined-up thinker, so I always express my thoughts in combined business and technical terms. I recognise not everyone likes that, don't let my Vulcan-thinking stop you enjoying ocPortal on fun personal projects.
  • If my response can inspire a community tutorial, that's a great way of giving back to the project as a user.
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Posted
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#69002
ria
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Fan in training

ocPortal is under a standard Open Source license
I'm surprised to read this here in the forum. I had certainly formed a different impression based on the licensing terms described in the distro

opensource.org/licenses/cpal_1.0 Common Public Attribution License
text/EN/license.txt
Attribution Phrase (not exceeding 10 words): Built with the ocPortal Content Management System, derivative under license.

So, I "(mis)understood"? Display of the "attribution phrase" in a "reasonable" font size is not required across all page footers?
Preinstall, as I skimmed through the code in the scripts, I did notice the "debrand" references… but based on the above, I expected use of that option would involve a fee. Noticing the web beacon (ocportal.com -hosted favicon.ico) within INSTALLER_WRAP.tpl and elsewhere served to reinforce my expectation that the project developers were intent on "keeping an eye on" deployments.

In advance, trying to gauge the app's installed base, I had searched google: "Built with the ocPortal Content"
and found only 4800(?) matching results. Only, as in, I had read (opensourcecms? cmsmatrix?) the ocportal project began way back in 2004. Now I'm wondering what the "true" size of the userbase might be, or worded differently, what percentage of admins elect to "debrand" their ocPortal-powered sites?
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Posted
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#69003
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With regards to finding other ocPortal websites, the following search term returns over one million results:

Code

"Powered by ocPortal"
We hope this number will increase over time! ;)


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Posted
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#69005
ria
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Fan in training

I'll respect your decision to not divulge the number of in-the-wild installations. In making a sincere effort to research the actual count, I believe these are more useful queries than something which returns "over a million pages !!!1101!"

"powered by ocportal" intitle:welcome
About 1,300 results

"powered by ocportal" inurl:index.php?page=start
About 3,720 results

Still need to guestimate what percentage of installs have employed mod_rewrite, and I'm still left wondering how many installations are running "frozen in time" prior versions, vs the current (v6+) app.

Is there at least a "showcase" list / page, presenting some especially large, or otherwise especially exemplary/creative sites using ocPortal?

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Posted
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#69006
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I don't personally know the number of installations.

We have a company portfolio here: ocPortal.com - Portfolio: a few select ocProducts projects

You can also find our members' websites posted here: Introduction message - ocPortal


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Posted
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#69053
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I'm surprised to read this here in the forum. I had certainly formed a different impression based on the licensing terms described in the distro

opensource.org/licenses/cpal_1.0 Common Public Attribution License
text/EN/license.txt
Attribution Phrase (not exceeding 10 words): Built with the ocPortal Content Management System, derivative under license.

So, I "(mis)understood"? Display of the "attribution phrase" in a "reasonable" font size is not required across all page footers?

I've taken a look and it was indeed ambiguous. I am rewording it from the next release to make it clear that we are only talking about redistributed Larger Works (aka forks).
It's not intended to apply to use of the software interface on a website. So we're basically adding the term 'distributed' there in addition to 'Larger Works' to make it completely clear that a website coupled with addons, content, etc, is not itself creating a requirement for attribution.

The CPAL is a standard OSI-approved license that allows an attribution term. So it's completely Open Source, with just a small term in there that basically stops people claiming forks as their own work (whilst allowing people to create forks freely as they wish).

Noticing the web beacon (ocportal.com -hosted favicon.ico) within INSTALLER_WRAP.tpl and elsewhere served to reinforce my expectation that the project developers were intent on "keeping an eye on" deployments.

Nothing so sneaky. We simply use that because to self-reference a favicon back into the quick installer would otherwise require additional code, because at this point the favicon does not exist on disk.

We do have a facility in ocPortal to track deployments. However it's simply now something that allows us to gather data to guide the project, and nothing to do with any kind of enforcement. It once was, when ocPortal did have a commercial debrand license (a few years ago now), so you can still see references to license keys and expiry dates in there, but they're not referencing anything anymore. People can remove the code for this if they so wish, it's found sitting unobfuscated in sources/site.php (look for http://ocportal.com/user.php). We hardly look at the data it gathers, and you can see Robbie was not even aware of it ;).

Robbie is correct that we don't have a figure, it's not something we've been counting recently (there are more pressing things we focus on, particular feedback on the forum). We have the ability to create a figure if we wanted to, although it wouldn't necessarily count people behind firewalls etc, and really these numbers don't mean a lot (except possibly when plotted against time) as some people just leave installs lying around. So it might be useful for us to do it some time, but we're more concerned about being in the trenches and innovating in a market where (in our opinion) all solutions are currently far too hard to use.

I'll respect your decision to not divulge the number of in-the-wild installations.

Forgive me for saying so, but your last couple of posts do seem a bit paranoid. We're not making corporate decisions about how we can make our users fit into some arch-scheme. The core team may be a company, but we're a small friendly company of passionate people who want to make a difference in the world. We're also passionate Open Source people. Even years ago when we had the debrand license I mentioned, our free license still met the OSI-definition (and our current license is OSI-approved). You'll notice we've put out loads of addons, and they're free, not commercial. We make our money from services now, and if I had the more sophisticated Open Source business perspective I now do I would have actually made this the case right from the start. In my opinion there are too many Open-Source pretenders out there, 'freemium model companies'; and too many Open-Source organisations that don't take any responsibility for their output and basically force people to go through consultants or be programmers to do basic things. So I'm quite proud about how we go about things.


Become a fan of ocPortal on Facebook or add me as a friend. Add me on on Twitter.
Was I helpful?
  • If not, please let us know how we can do better (please try and propose any bigger ideas in such a way that they are fundable and scalable).
  • If so, please let others know about ocPortal whenever you see the opportunity.
  • If my reply is too Vulcan or expressed too much in business-strategy terms, and not particularly personal, I apologise. As a company & project maintainer, time is very limited to me, so usually when I write a reply I try and make it generic advice to all readers. I'm also naturally a joined-up thinker, so I always express my thoughts in combined business and technical terms. I recognise not everyone likes that, don't let my Vulcan-thinking stop you enjoying ocPortal on fun personal projects.
  • If my response can inspire a community tutorial, that's a great way of giving back to the project as a user.
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Posted
Rating:
#69113
ria
Avatar

Fan in training

Thanks for the thorough reply. Yes, "paranoid" is an accurate assessment of my mindset. Long experience with open source projects has unfortunately ingrained that mindset. So that you might understand where I'm coming from… if you're willing to spend a few moments, here's a fresh (current) example:

Visit the project site for p r e s t a s h o p (spaced, to thwart search / linkback. Heh, see how paranoid I am!)
and download the current v1.4.1 version of the app. Unzip, browse to
m o d u l e s / p r e s t a f r a u d / p r e s t a f r a u d. p h p
and search within the script for the method "pushdatas"

This isn't some script kiddie add-on, it's a core/native module of the project… and, once installed, subsequent to each order it transmits customer personal information – unencrypted – to a central (mothership) server.

Although this foible was bug-reported to the devs on the first day of release (mid March), it's unpatched to date. Based on what's showing in SVN, it will be half-assed patched when the next version of the app is released – still sending unencrypted private customer data, https if possible, with fallback to plain ol' http.

So, I'm here, looking into ocPortal… perhaps with an eye toward the prospect of creating an Anglo-centric ecomm platform similar to et_sy, art_fire or bon_anza? Howabout "like a commerce-enabled Deviant_Art"? No, not a fork. Based on what I've read from your docs, I suppose I was envisioning a 'zone'. At first glance though, massaging catalog'ue' into a full-fledged ecomm package seems like a reach, so maybe a bridged integration would be preferable.

My questioning licensing/attribution was primarily a matter of due diligence rather than paranoia. Although I'm inclined to obfuscate file paths (vs known/predictable paths) for each server installation, I'm quite a staunch proponent for retaining "powered by" attribution.
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