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Moving forward with Composr

ocPortal has been relaunched as Composr CMS, which is now in beta. ocPortal 9 will be superseded by Composr 10.

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Simplification discussion

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Posted
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#84976 (In Topic #17500)
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The next step in making ocPortal more user-friendly would be:
  • merging overlapping concepts
  • renaming to more industry-standard terminology
  • removing outdated or unnecessary features
    • either pushing stuff to addons
    • or, removing it from the ecosystem entirely

I've attached a spreadsheet showing my thinking on what we can do.
Attachment
» Download: concepts.xls (21 Kb, 157 downloads so far)


(I have also noted some non-bundled addons that might become bundled)

This should be construed of any plans to do this yet – I am looking for opinions


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Posted
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#84977
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Community saint

Chris-

These seem for the most part to be good ideas, many of which are already in the tracker.

The only one that really jumped out at me as moving to far is the separate newsletter signup. This separate sign-up allows non-members to receive newsletters which I think can be an important marketing tool.

I particularly like the ideas of unifying the content blocks and moving IOTD to galleries.

Bob
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Posted
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#84978
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many of which are already in the tracker.

They all are now, except a couple of minor ones I realised myself were silly.

The only one that really jumped out at me as moving to far is the separate newsletter signup. This separate sign-up allows non-members to receive newsletters which I think can be an important marketing tool.

I know this is a controversial one. What if signup was really really easy, just like newsletter signup now?

It may well be this idea is dropped for good reasons, but it would be a big simplifier because it removes a whole frontend module.

moving IOTD to galleries

I was thinking about this, I don't think honestly we need to do anything except drop IOTDs and make a migration script. It's pretty darned easy to see what gallery images aren't yet awarded, and give them the award, and have a main_awards block use that.


It is worth discussing other usability ideas here. The other three I have in mind:
  • Use more CSS3, hence simpler templates and CSS, no need for corner images on boxes, etc
  • Tidy up CSS, merge styles, generally simplify
  • Faster performance (if things run faster, it's easier to move around the system and learn it, and generally less frustration; less friction = greater usability)
(I realise some of this CSS stuff is already sponsored :)!)
(removing the "competing field" mechanism on a lot of forms would be one, except that was recently sponsored and completed)


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  • If my reply is too Vulcan or expressed too much in business-strategy terms, and not particularly personal, I apologise. As a company & project maintainer, time is very limited to me, so usually when I write a reply I try and make it generic advice to all readers. I'm also naturally a joined-up thinker, so I always express my thoughts in combined business and technical terms. I recognise not everyone likes that, don't let my Vulcan-thinking stop you enjoying ocPortal on fun personal projects.
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Posted
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#84980
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Community saint

Chris Graham said

… I am looking for opinions …

I used your spreadsheet and added my 'opinions' against the current titles - in red.

They are simply that - OPINIONS!

 :thumbs:

Attachment
» Download: #####concepts.xls (43 Kb, 148 downloads so far)

Take my advice. I'm not using it!

View my working ocPortal site (version 9.x.x) at Anglo-Indian Portal
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Posted
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#84981
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Community saint

Chris-

I really like where you are going with this. As I mentioned last week or so, I think that getting the CSS stuff fully-sponsored is pretty important as it will clean things up substantially. Here are the feature issues I have in play for this:
0000292: Scrap standard boxes - ocPortal feature tracker - Fully sponsored
0000058: Remove panel_width option - ocPortal feature tracker - Partially sponsored
0000366: Drop legacy support - ocPortal feature tracker - Partially sponsored
0000423: Performance improvements: frontend technologies - ocPortal feature tracker - Partial sponsorship pledged when others have pledged one-third credits

I am also unclear how random quotes would be handled in the current setup were removed (0000467: Remove setup page - ocPortal feature tracker). I currently have a rather extensive list of quotes (probably more than 30) and have plans to add more. Would your plan in any way make it more difficult to maintain a large set of quotes?

Also, would it make sense to work 0000415: Allow exclusion of contents from sitemap for all content types - ocPortal feature tracker in conjunction with 0000142: Merged sitemap API - ocPortal feature tracker, or do you see these as too disparate?

Bob
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Posted
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#84982
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Would your plan in any way make it more difficult to maintain a large set of quotes?

Well, as we have the Block assistant it really is pretty easy to just double click the block and change settings in there. You don't need to know or even see Comcode. So it would be trivial to encode the block options such that the block form makes it very easy to manage.

Also, would it make sense to work 0000415: Allow exclusion of contents from sitemap for all content types - ocPortal feature tracker in conjunction with 0000142: Merged sitemap API - ocPortal feature tracker, or do you see these as too disparate?

Probably it would be done together, you're right.


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  • If so, please let others know about ocPortal whenever you see the opportunity.
  • If my reply is too Vulcan or expressed too much in business-strategy terms, and not particularly personal, I apologise. As a company & project maintainer, time is very limited to me, so usually when I write a reply I try and make it generic advice to all readers. I'm also naturally a joined-up thinker, so I always express my thoughts in combined business and technical terms. I recognise not everyone likes that, don't let my Vulcan-thinking stop you enjoying ocPortal on fun personal projects.
  • If my response can inspire a community tutorial, that's a great way of giving back to the project as a user.
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Posted
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#84983
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Disassociate from News

Maybe as an option – could you add that to the tracker saying something like "Add config option to specify that blog posts should not show up in the cms_news module."

CAPTCHA - Strengthen

Yes, we have this via that hidden option, eventually that'll be official when we promote it.

Checkbox for mass deletions/validations

On tracker.

Split rating for Forums from all others.

I don't understand this one?

Realtime Rain - Drop. Resource hog!

I think it's cool ;). I think the Setup Wizard probably already removes it by default. We actually added this primarily as something to show off in client meetings, real-time analytics in picture form.

Semi-Html - Keep. Invaluable!

I am imagining semi-html as the new default in the Combined Tempcode/Comcode language, and that there is a new tag for defining exactly what parser behaviour should be for contained sections of content.

Weather - Move to non-bundled.

I think I agree actually. It does place a dependency on Yahoo, and most things with external dependencies are non-bundled.



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Was I helpful?
  • If not, please let us know how we can do better (please try and propose any bigger ideas in such a way that they are fundable and scalable).
  • If so, please let others know about ocPortal whenever you see the opportunity.
  • If my reply is too Vulcan or expressed too much in business-strategy terms, and not particularly personal, I apologise. As a company & project maintainer, time is very limited to me, so usually when I write a reply I try and make it generic advice to all readers. I'm also naturally a joined-up thinker, so I always express my thoughts in combined business and technical terms. I recognise not everyone likes that, don't let my Vulcan-thinking stop you enjoying ocPortal on fun personal projects.
  • If my response can inspire a community tutorial, that's a great way of giving back to the project as a user.
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Posted
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#84984
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Community saint

Fletch said

Chris Graham said

… I am looking for opinions …

I used your spreadsheet and added my 'opinions' against the current titles - in red.

They are simply that - OPINIONS!

 :thumbs:

Attachment
» Download: #####concepts.xls (43 Kb, 148 downloads so far)

I like the idea of a better distinction between blogs and news and had already posted a feature request to segregate them in the back end: 0000420: Segregate blog and news entries in the Content Management area - ocPortal feature tracker. Do you see this as ripping these apart into two separate modules or are there specific areas that you are interested in seeing separated?

I know many would like the ability to handle content en masse and agree that would be useful.

I now that Chris has mentioned that a better capture exists which can be enabled through ocCLE. Would be good to just implement this as standard thus alleviating  the need for two separate bits of code.

Does anyone use Realtime Rain?

Bob


Last edit: by BobS
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Posted
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#84985
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Community saint

Disassociate from News

Maybe as an option – could you add that to the tracker saying something like "Add config option to specify that blog posts should not show up in the cms_news module."
Looks like Bob has already done this? He references it as 0000420

Split rating for Forums from all others.

I don't understand this one?
I see the 'rating' (like/dislike) in the Forums as intrinsic to how a forum is run, and gets the users involved totally.

However, 'rating' an article or picture or some other form of user interaction that is not associated with a discussion can have a negative effect on the submitter. 'Comments' are fine; the commenter has to think about what he/she is writing. But when simply clicking a like/dislike button it is too easy to be dismissive of the content laboriously crafted by the original submitter.

That's my 2 worth!

Realtime Rain - Drop. Resource hog!

I think it's cool ;). I think the Setup Wizard probably already removes it by default. We actually added this primarily as something to show off in client meetings, real-time analytics in picture form.

Oooooops! Sorry.



Last edit: by Fletch

Take my advice. I'm not using it!

View my working ocPortal site (version 9.x.x) at Anglo-Indian Portal
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Posted
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#84986
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Community saint

Fletch said

I see the 'rating' (like/dislike) in the Forums as intrinsic to how a forum is run, and gets the users involved totally.

However, 'rating' an article or picture or some other form of user interaction that is not associated with a discussion can have a negative effect on the submitter. 'Comments' are fine; the commenter has to think about what he/she is writing. But when simply clicking a like/dislike button it is too easy to be dismissive of the content laboriously crafted by the original submitter.

That's my 2 worth!
Fletch-

Interesting take. I just updated my database to allow ratings (via the 'Like" function) on catalog and gallery entries, and was planning on announcing this today. I may spend some time rethinking this as I surely do not want to discourage a submitter.

Bob
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Posted
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#85011
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Fan in action

Actually, on the subject of ranking content, is there any chance we could get this added as a permission option? (Assuming it's not already in there of course, I've been rather slow in getting my stuff set up.)

It seems reasonable to me that there might be communities where rating (not necessarily like/dislike, but giving a numerical X star rating) is something that would be restricted to certain usergroups or staff.
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Posted
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#85016
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Already is.


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  • If so, please let others know about ocPortal whenever you see the opportunity.
  • If my reply is too Vulcan or expressed too much in business-strategy terms, and not particularly personal, I apologise. As a company & project maintainer, time is very limited to me, so usually when I write a reply I try and make it generic advice to all readers. I'm also naturally a joined-up thinker, so I always express my thoughts in combined business and technical terms. I recognise not everyone likes that, don't let my Vulcan-thinking stop you enjoying ocPortal on fun personal projects.
  • If my response can inspire a community tutorial, that's a great way of giving back to the project as a user.
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Posted
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#85028
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Community saint

My quick thoughts:

* Addon –> Do not re-name to "App"
* Flagrant text message –> I really, really don't like "Flagrant"
* ocCLE –> Maybe rename to "ocShell"
* Super Administrator –> Rename to just "Administrator"
* Super Moderator –> Rename to just "Moderator"

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Posted
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#85037
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temp1024 said

My quick thoughts:

* Addon –> Do not re-name to "App"
* Flagrant text message –> I really, really don't like "Flagrant"
* ocCLE –> Maybe rename to "ocShell"
* Super Administrator –> Rename to just "Administrator"
* Super Moderator –> Rename to just "Moderator"
  • Addon -> Extension (like browser extensions. 'App' suggests a self-contained programme)
  • Nobody really gets 'flagrant'. It's not a universally-known word. I would suggest 'bulletins' or something
  • I agree with removing the 'Super'


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Posted
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#85038
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Addon -> Do not re-name to "App"

It may sound like pure trend-chasing, but there's also a good reason – it was always a bit flaky as referring to bundled stuff as addons.

Flagrant text message -> I really, really don't like "Flagrant"

We agree. It was a bit of fun on a community site, but it doesn't really generalise professionally.

ocCLE -> Maybe rename to "ocShell"

I like ocShell, but I also like the way ocCLE sounds.

* Super Administrator -> Rename to just "Administrator"
* Super Moderator -> Rename to just "Moderator"

I agree.


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Was I helpful?
  • If not, please let us know how we can do better (please try and propose any bigger ideas in such a way that they are fundable and scalable).
  • If so, please let others know about ocPortal whenever you see the opportunity.
  • If my reply is too Vulcan or expressed too much in business-strategy terms, and not particularly personal, I apologise. As a company & project maintainer, time is very limited to me, so usually when I write a reply I try and make it generic advice to all readers. I'm also naturally a joined-up thinker, so I always express my thoughts in combined business and technical terms. I recognise not everyone likes that, don't let my Vulcan-thinking stop you enjoying ocPortal on fun personal projects.
  • If my response can inspire a community tutorial, that's a great way of giving back to the project as a user.
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Posted
Item has a rating of 5 (Liked by Robbie GoacherLiked by BobSLiked by sholzy)  
Rating:
#85045
O

Non-joined user

I think App isn't quite right, as it's not a standalone programme.  Maybe 'plugin' or 'widget'.  (Also considered were 'doohicky' and 'thingamajig', but these were rejected as too technical.)

And what do you mean by removing 'bulk upload', Chris?  The ability to shift-click multiple files?

And how on eath do you pronounce ocCLE?

(P.S.  As I am not registered, this comment cannot be regarded as contibuting.  It is simply to annoy BobS and Robbie.   ;) )
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Posted
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#85046
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'App' suggests a self-contained programme
&
I think App isn't quite right, as it's not a standalone programme

There's no real difference to say an app that runs on an Android phone and uses the Dalvik virtual machine, to an app that runs on ocPortal and uses ocPortal APIs. Neither are system level software, they're both running on top of platforms and depending on APIs to function. I know some other CMSs are using the term app now, although I can't remember off-hand which.

And what do you mean by removing 'bulk upload', Chris?  The ability to shift-click multiple files?

The fact you don't know it proves the point it should be removed ;). It is a very old ocPortal module that few people have installed. It was originally for bulk uploading files to CEDI, before we had an attachment system, and definitely before we had the feature to upload a zip to the attachment system and have it auto-extract.

And how on eath do you pronounce ocCLE?

ickle with an 'O' ;).


Last edit: by Chris Graham


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  • If not, please let us know how we can do better (please try and propose any bigger ideas in such a way that they are fundable and scalable).
  • If so, please let others know about ocPortal whenever you see the opportunity.
  • If my reply is too Vulcan or expressed too much in business-strategy terms, and not particularly personal, I apologise. As a company & project maintainer, time is very limited to me, so usually when I write a reply I try and make it generic advice to all readers. I'm also naturally a joined-up thinker, so I always express my thoughts in combined business and technical terms. I recognise not everyone likes that, don't let my Vulcan-thinking stop you enjoying ocPortal on fun personal projects.
  • If my response can inspire a community tutorial, that's a great way of giving back to the project as a user.
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Posted
Item has a rating of 3 (Liked by Guest)  
Rating:
#85059
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Community saint

Chris Graham said

Addon -> Do not re-name to "App"

It may sound like pure trend-chasing
That's exactly what it sounds like.

Chris Graham said

but there's also a good reason – it was always a bit flaky as referring to bundled stuff as addons.
Then maybe something like "Module" which does not infer inclusiveness.

Chris Graham said

I like ocShell, but I also like the way ocCLE sounds.
What more recognisable, a shell or CLE? ocShell is much more likely to get functional recognition without anyone needing to look it up.

Chris Graham said

'App' suggests a self-contained programme
&
I think App isn't quite right, as it's not a standalone programme

There's no real difference to say an app that runs on an Android phone and uses the Dalvik virtual machine, to an app that runs on ocPortal and uses ocPortal APIs. Neither are system level software, they're both running on top of platforms and depending on APIs to function.
The difference is that in Android the user installs the 'app', but in ocPortal the Admins install the 'app', not the users, and typically these things are called addons/modules/plug-ins etc and not apps.

Chris Graham said

I know some other CMSs are using the term app now
That's doesn't automatically make it right though.


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Posted
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#85082
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Community saint

O said

(P.S.  As I am not registered, this comment cannot be regarded as contibuting.  It is simply to annoy BobS and Robbie.   ;) )
Well, I consider your participation in the forums, even as a guest< as a contribution. It's ocPortal that is not giving you any recognition (points).

Bob
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Posted
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#85087
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Community saint

I have to agree that I do not like term "app" very much. Something just doesn't seem right. I do like "module" and, in the case of bundled addons, I think it makes it sound more like it is truly something offered as part of the ocPortal package.

Bob
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