HTML Logo by World Wide Web Consortium (www.w3.org). Click to learn more about our commitment to accessibility and standards.

Moving forward with Composr

ocPortal has been relaunched as Composr CMS, which is now in beta. ocPortal 9 will be superseded by Composr 10.

Head over to compo.sr for our new site, and to our migration roadmap. Existing ocPortal member accounts have been mirrored.


Switched to eLief for hosting

Login / Search

 [ Join | More ]
 Add topic 
Posted
Rating:
#73585 (In Topic #15389)
Avatar

Community saint

Well, I finally got around to changing to eLief from HostGator. I've had very good success with HostGator over the years but this last go-round seemed a bit dodgy. When I had the "Memory exhausted" problem with creating thumbnails, they claimed that they could not reproduce the problem. The thing is, I got the email to validate their attempted entry and saw that it errored out. I didn't really have a problem that there was an issue, I just hate being lied to three hours later.

eLief seems very competitively priced for what they offer. No, you don't get "unlimited" everything but you are given reasonable resources for the money paid.

My initial impressions are a bit mixed. One of their selling points is that they are running Litespeed servers. When I checked cPanel, it said they were running Apache 2.2.17. I guess this is a cPanel issue but it should be addressed as it is confusing.

I was somewhat taken aback by the fact the the first support tech I dealt with said that he needed to escalate to a Tier 2 tech to transfer my site from HostGator. The transfer itself went well but this just seems pretty straight-forward and makes me wonder about the competence of the first responders.

As for the site, I am a bit disappointed. I have a very obvious pause after clicking links which I never experienced with HostGator. At first, I thought it was just the cache being rebuilt but, unfortunately, that did not turn out to be the case. I have not yet implemented Cloudflare on my site which may have a positive impact although HostGator also offers this feature. Perhaps things just need to settle down a bit after the move so I will review things in about a week and see if the response has improved.

Anyway, that's my report. I am not unhappy with the move but would be happier if I didn't observe obvious delays when clicking links. And I am still wondering about the ability of the first-level techs.

Bob
Back to the top
 
Posted
Rating:
#73586
Avatar

Community saint

To be honest first level techies from a company classified as larger scale are usually people reading from an FAQ so don't let it discourage you too much. Its level 2 that should scare you if they can't do something rudimentary. You get passed to level 3 then worry unless it was a major issue (like your memory error thing) but level 1 is usually there just to read the FAQ's and sort out the noobs that call tech support before reading FAQ's themselves.

Level 1 equals call center employee with possible no experience and quite likely in another country.

Level 2 is actually a techie but usually just low level general -  possible on site or local

level 3 starts to get into guru territory. Possibly specialist but could also be just a higher grade techie of sysadmin caliber. - usually onsite or local.

If there is a level 4 and you get to it. This is the grand master usually. If he can't fix it then you in big trouble!
Back to the top
 
Posted
Rating:
#73588
Avatar

Community saint

I think I expected a bit more from a small company like eLief. Moving a website from one host to another is not rocket science - especially when they both use cPanel. But perhaps even a small company has the luxury of level 1 techs who basically read from scripts. I guess it's just a form of triage.

I'm more interested/concerned with the delay when clicking links. A traceroute shows some delays on a couple of above.net routers but response on my server is consistently over 50ms. Server response times were more typically in the mid-40s at HostGator. Of course, the delay might also be a slow SQL server. I'll see what things look like in a couple of days.

Bob
Back to the top
 
Posted
Rating:
#73593
Avatar

Community saint

Just to try and qualify what I was seeing, I ran some ping tests. The results, though not vastly different on average, were consistently slower of eLief:

Code

--- ELIEF ping statistics ---
25 packets transmitted, 25 packets received, 0.0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 47.623/52.870/74.275/6.140 ms

25 packets transmitted, 25 packets received, 0.0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 46.280/50.741/73.237/5.049 ms

25 packets transmitted, 25 packets received, 0.0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 46.220/51.704/75.582/7.123 ms



--- HOSTGATOR ping statistics ---
25 packets transmitted, 25 packets received, 0.0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 41.693/46.564/70.147/6.713 ms

25 packets transmitted, 25 packets received, 0.0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 42.855/49.036/80.312/8.667 ms

25 packets transmitted, 25 packets received, 0.0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 41.836/47.554/81.843/7.693 ms


I guess eLief wins on overall consistency with a smaller stddev.

I still feel something is not quite right with the delays I get when clicking links.

Bob
Back to the top
 
Posted
Rating:
#73598
Avatar

Community saint

Did you try flushing your DNS resolver cache? How new is the move?

I wouls suspect SQl server too. Do you use caching on that? Try a repair and optimize on DB and see if that helps too.
Back to the top
 
Posted
Rating:
#73606
Avatar

Community saint

I just moved the site yesterday afternoon - it 8am here now. I just checked and the delays seem a bit shorter. I will investigate further when I am fully caffeinated.

The DB should be optimized as it was just created and imported. I doubt that would be the problem but there is no harm in optimizing again.

Flushing the DNS cache had no impact.

As I said, I will give it a couple more days and I will likely contact tech support (hadn't done this yet to give things a chance to settle in).

Thanks for your suggestions.

Bob
Back to the top
 
Posted
Rating:
#73608
Avatar

Community saint

Bob, I suggest you also test with the command “tracert” since the distribution of the routers and traffic choke points between your ISP and Elief’s server could probably be the determining factors for that slight hesitation. Tracert could help you pinpoint the difference between HostGator and Elief at the route level.

Jean
Back to the top
 
Posted
Rating:
#73611
Avatar

Community saint

Thanks for the suggestion, Jean.

I already ran trace route last night. The first two thirds of the routing are identical with a bit of a holdup at the three above.net routers. HostGator has an additional three hops on Softlayer routers that appear to be part of The Planet (EDIT: the Planet is now a part of Softlayer) internal routing. That's why I was so surprised - an extra three hops and still faster.

As I said, I will give it a bit more time and contact eLief support but, to me, this is a pretty serious issue. I know I tend to not stay at sites where there is any delay when navigating the site. But then, I do admit to being rather impatient.

Even with all that said, I do think that eLief will outperform HostGator under load since I will have quite a lot of large images plus a 30-minute video and some audio. I started with the Advanced plan but will likely need to upgrade as the site takes off although Cloudflare will reduce my bandwidth for the heavy hitting images and video.

Bob


Last edit: by BobS
Back to the top
 
Posted
Rating:
#73613
Avatar

Community saint

Do note that DNs cache is different than Browser cache and clearing your browser cache does not clear your DNS resolver cache. You would do that thru ipconfig. You may know this already but just in case you don't I thought I'd point it out. By Default dns resolver cache usually clears itself within 24 hours I think so if speeds improved now that could have been part of the problem.

Back to the top
 
Posted
Rating:
#73615
Avatar

Community saint

I'm on a Mac running OS X 10.7. I cleared the dns cache by executing "dscacheutil -flushcache" in the terminal.

Just in case anyone is still running a version of OS X prior to 10.5 (Leopard), the command to type into terminal is "lookupd -flushcache".

Thanks for the suggestion and I am sure it will help others.

Bob


Last edit: by BobS
Back to the top
 
Posted
Rating:
#73616
Avatar

This is unrelated to the main topic, but BobS, have you noticed that Safari 5.1 (under 10.7 at least) seems to cache absolutely everything?

I used to be able to swipe 'back' and it would reload the previous page (useful when I was viewing a virtual forum on ocPortal.com, for example) but now it's solidly cached and I have to manually reload it.


Like ocPortal on Facebook:
Back to the top
 
Posted
Rating:
#73617
Avatar

Community saint

Unfortunately, yes.

I actually hate having anything cached in the browser since I have a pretty fast connection (at least by American standards).

Another annoyance in Lion is that the "Smart zoom" feature is super-sensitive. It remains to be seen who relents first - me or the software. :) I'm hoping that the next release will make the mouse a bit less sensitive to taps.

Bob
Back to the top
 
Posted
Rating:
#73618
Avatar

Community saint

Well, I raised a ticket with eLief. We'll see what they have to say about the delays.

Hopefully, they will find some solution.

Bob
Back to the top
 
Posted
Rating:
#73621
Avatar

Honoured member

I used to be with elief, they made me upgrade my account because my database got "too big" bla bla…I recommend:

Website Hosting and Development - ocPortal Websites
Back to the top
 
Posted
Rating:
#73625
Avatar

Community saint

Tech support just got back to me and said that they could find nothing wrong and Pingdom showed load times under half a second. I confirmed this with many of my pages loading in 250ms so I can't really complain.

I do have one page that consistently stalls and the difference is that it has a child page. Has anyone else ever noticed a slowdown on pages with child pages?

The cynical side of me says they found something and made a change to improve performance. I hope not as this was my reason for leaving HostGator. But perhaps I should have just been more patient so that network issues settled in which is entirely possible for explaining the improvement. My ping times now essentially match those at HostGator.

My one other concern comes from the above remark about a DB being too large. I asked Richard Rowan what limits were placed on accounts and he did not mention anything except more than 15 DBs for my plan which is more than enough for my needs.

I've done some poking around the DB to see if images are stored in the DB rather than on the file system. It seems that's not the case so I doubt my DB would run up against any size limitations any time soon. This would more likely be an issue for an existing heavily-trafficked site.

So, summing up, I think I will be happy with eLief. Their tech support seems good if a bit slower than HostGator. I await Richard's response regarding DB size limitations but my site seems like it might now be slightly outperforming the HostGator server. I suspect that the site will fair much better under load than HostGator.

If anyone has experienced stalls on pages with child pages, please let me know what you did to improve the situation.

Bob
Back to the top
 
Posted
Rating:
#73627
Avatar

Regarding DB size, in the past (quite a while back now) we had a nasty bug that made the cache table grow indefinitely, the likely cause of some unhappy web hosts.


Become a fan of ocPortal on Facebook or add me as a friend. Add me on on Twitter.
Was I helpful?
  • If not, please let us know how we can do better (please try and propose any bigger ideas in such a way that they are fundable and scalable).
  • If so, please let others know about ocPortal whenever you see the opportunity.
  • If my reply is too Vulcan or expressed too much in business-strategy terms, and not particularly personal, I apologise. As a company & project maintainer, time is very limited to me, so usually when I write a reply I try and make it generic advice to all readers. I'm also naturally a joined-up thinker, so I always express my thoughts in combined business and technical terms. I recognise not everyone likes that, don't let my Vulcan-thinking stop you enjoying ocPortal on fun personal projects.
  • If my response can inspire a community tutorial, that's a great way of giving back to the project as a user.
Back to the top
 
Posted
Rating:
#73629
Avatar

Community saint

Chris Graham said

Regarding DB size, in the past (quite a while back now) we had a nasty bug that made the cache table grow indefinitely, the likely cause of some unhappy web hosts.
Ahh..so you're admitting it's all your fault.   ;)

Bob
Back to the top
 
Posted
Rating:
#73634
Avatar

Exactly ;).


Become a fan of ocPortal on Facebook or add me as a friend. Add me on on Twitter.
Was I helpful?
  • If not, please let us know how we can do better (please try and propose any bigger ideas in such a way that they are fundable and scalable).
  • If so, please let others know about ocPortal whenever you see the opportunity.
  • If my reply is too Vulcan or expressed too much in business-strategy terms, and not particularly personal, I apologise. As a company & project maintainer, time is very limited to me, so usually when I write a reply I try and make it generic advice to all readers. I'm also naturally a joined-up thinker, so I always express my thoughts in combined business and technical terms. I recognise not everyone likes that, don't let my Vulcan-thinking stop you enjoying ocPortal on fun personal projects.
  • If my response can inspire a community tutorial, that's a great way of giving back to the project as a user.
Back to the top
 
Posted
Rating:
#73635
Avatar

Community saint

Hi Bob,

To clear things up for you with some of your initial concerns and questions:

BobS said

My initial impressions are a bit mixed. One of their selling points is that they are running Litespeed servers. When I checked cPanel, it said they were running Apache 2.2.17. I guess this is a cPanel issue but it should be addressed as it is confusing.

LiteSpeed is based off of Apache and can be ran side-by-side. On our servers, Apache is installed but turned off, just in-case we ever need to switch to Apache for some reason(maintenance, LiteSpeed issues, etc.). If you create a PHP info file you can verify the server is running LiteSpeed right near the top. To do that you would create a php file with the following code in it:

<?php

phpinfo ();

?>

The reason for any delay most likely comes down to propagation, I would give it 72 hours from the time you changed your nameservers and then update us again if you are still running into the issue. During propagation your site can be resolving to the new server one moment, and then the next be loading again from the old host's server.

Looking at the results of your ping tests you provided, I don't think that would really be the issue since it is only a matter of a few milliseconds difference, not something you would be able to really observe with the naked eye. I'd be interested to revisit this and see the results. From my end, our traceroute well out-performs HostGator in terms of network latency:

Tracing route to server2.nszoom.com [206.123.66.59]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1     2 ms     4 ms     1 ms  homeportal
  2    23 ms    22 ms    22 ms  xx-xx-xx-xx.lightspeed.xx.sbcglobal.net
  3    24 ms    23 ms    31 ms  75.26.64.36
  4    25 ms     *        *     75.26.64.14
  5    22 ms    22 ms    23 ms  12.83.32.133
  6    29 ms    29 ms    29 ms  cgcil02jt.ip.att.net [12.122.81.17]
  7    30 ms    30 ms    30 ms  192.205.37.150
  8    30 ms    29 ms    32 ms  vlan52.ebr2.Chicago2.Level3.net [4.69.138.190]
  9    51 ms    51 ms    50 ms  ae-14-14.ebr1.Dallas1.Level3.net [4.69.151.118]

 10    54 ms    50 ms    51 ms  ae-81-81.csw3.Dallas1.Level3.net [4.69.151.149]

 11    51 ms    50 ms    51 ms  ae-3-80.edge3.Dallas1.Level3.net [4.69.145.136]

 12    52 ms    51 ms    50 ms  COLO4-DALLA.edge3.Dallas1.Level3.net [8.9.232.74
]
 13    51 ms    51 ms    50 ms  206.123.64.130
 14    50 ms    51 ms    52 ms  server2.nszoom.com [206.123.66.59]

Trace complete.



Tracing route to gator544.hostgator.com [74.54.188.50]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1     2 ms     1 ms     1 ms  homeportal
  2    22 ms    22 ms    22 ms  xx-xx-xx-xx.lightspeed.xx.sbcglobal.net
  3    24 ms    26 ms    23 ms  75.26.64.36
  4     *        *       24 ms  75.26.64.14
  5    22 ms    23 ms    22 ms  12.83.32.133
  6    31 ms    30 ms    33 ms  151.164.99.133
  7    30 ms    31 ms    30 ms  asn3549-glbx.eqchil.sbcglobal.net [151.164.248.1
8]
  8    54 ms    54 ms    53 ms  The-Planet.GigabitEthernet7-3.ar2.DAL2.gblx.net
[64.208.170.198]
  9    54 ms    54 ms    54 ms  te7-2.dsr01.dllstx3.networklayer.com [70.87.253.
10]
 10     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 11    57 ms    59 ms    55 ms  te1-1.car06.dllstx6.networklayer.com [70.87.254.
178]
 12   153 ms   196 ms   211 ms  gator544.hostgator.com [74.54.188.50]

Trace complete.

Their tech support seems good if a bit slower

I looked into some of your tickets opened and it seems the ticket response time was around 60 minutes or so. This is quite higher than our average response time. Generally we aim for an average reply of 15 minutes with a maximum of 30 minutes, however sometimes when we have a higher than normal ticket queue it can take us a bit longer to respond. While 1 hour isn't unacceptable by any means, after being with us for a few months I think you'll find that on average we respond much quicker.

If you have any additional questions or concerns feel free to let me know. Looking forward to working with you and hearing your impressions about us after being with us for your first 30 days :thumbs:.

eLief Web Hosting
eLief - Official hosting partner for ocPortal.
Reseller Hosting
Back to the top
 
Posted
Rating:
#73636
Avatar

BobS said

Unfortunately, yes.

I actually hate having anything cached in the browser since I have a pretty fast connection (at least by American standards).
Yeah, same here (although I'm in the UK). I've got a 100Mbps fibre optic connection, so a cache is quite unnecessary!


Like ocPortal on Facebook:
Back to the top
 
There are too many online users to list.
Control functions:

Quick reply   Expand