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Moving forward with Composr

ocPortal has been relaunched as Composr CMS, which is now in beta. ocPortal 9 will be superseded by Composr 10.

Head over to compo.sr for our new site, and to our migration roadmap. Existing ocPortal member accounts have been mirrored.


So when is COmposr coming out?

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Posted
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#107365 (In Topic #20917)
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Fan in action

Sorry, I just couldn't help myself. I've put OCPortal on the back burner to see what Composr will be so I'm anxious to find out.
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Posted
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#107366
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John Pollard said

Sorry, I just couldn't help myself. I've put OCPortal on the back burner to see what Composr will be so I'm anxious to find out.
I'm afraid I'll have to give you a non-answer.

Nobody should be putting their plans on hold for any new version because:
  1. There'll always be another version coming out at some point. There's always a reason to put things off.
  2. No new version is going to be perfect for anyone's needs, there'll always be new things wanted, new ideas, changes in expectations over time. So waiting for perfection isn't realistic.
  3. I doubt we're going to give release dates for any new version given that development isn't directly funded. We'd be crazy to, 95% of anything we have to deal with in any particular week has absolutely nothing to do with mainstream ocPortal/Composr development, and it's very difficult to estimate software effort even without that difficulty; there's no chance of even my best private effort being even slightly realistic. Perhaps if we started using something like Kickstarter to get a direct budget we could, but I doubt if that is a viable strategy for the near future.
  4. v10 will upgrade from v9. There'll be some effort, but if site development time/budget is so tight that an upgrade effort breaks the budget, that's a real elephant in the room.

We have said if people want ocProducts to work on a new project, they will need to wait until v10, so that we can speed things up. I've also said that's a good motivator to spend real time doing proper planning. That might sound like a contradiction, making people put things off for our projects, but telling them not to for self-developed projects – but it's really not, just a practical matter.


Become a fan of ocPortal on Facebook or add me as a friend. Add me on on Twitter.
Was I helpful?
  • If not, please let us know how we can do better (please try and propose any bigger ideas in such a way that they are fundable and scalable).
  • If so, please let others know about ocPortal whenever you see the opportunity.
  • If my reply is too Vulcan or expressed too much in business-strategy terms, and not particularly personal, I apologise. As a company & project maintainer, time is very limited to me, so usually when I write a reply I try and make it generic advice to all readers. I'm also naturally a joined-up thinker, so I always express my thoughts in combined business and technical terms. I recognise not everyone likes that, don't let my Vulcan-thinking stop you enjoying ocPortal on fun personal projects.
  • If my response can inspire a community tutorial, that's a great way of giving back to the project as a user.
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Posted
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#107373
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Fan in action

1. I was of the understanding that Composr is a makeover, not a mere update. Setting up for the next ten years?

2. You're making assumptions of my expectations of Composr just like you make assumptions on what I'm expecting my site to be.

3. I asked somewhat jokingly and based on your previous writings I didn't and do not expect a date.

To be honest, I'm pretty well done with OCPortal because not only is the backend and documentation not user friendly for none developers, the community is the same. Rants and lecturing get old pretty quick and people tend to not like being talked down to(even in the docs). Might be the reason, I'm the only non ocp staff logged on to the forum most of the time.

IF Composr had an intuitive enough UI and the tutorials/docs improved then it might be worth dealing with the rest.
If I was a developer, I would simply use an actual framework like Zend. If this were a serious start up business, I would simply hire developers and they would probably use something like zend.

I said I put OCP on the back burner, not my site. Plenty to do, learning about data and databases. I've found something that might better suit my needs but since I already have some time invested into learning ocp and Composr, while quite different in some ways, will probably be quite the same in some, I figure I'll at least check it out.

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Posted
Item has a rating of 5 (Liked by Robbie GoacherLiked by KingBast)  
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#107374
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I was of the understanding that Composr is a makeover, not a mere update. Setting up for the next ten years?

From a strategy and architecture point of view, but from the user's point of view a feature in v11 could be more important than all of what comes in v10 in terms of the direct benefits. If there is some specific new feature in v10 you require, of course, that's fair enough.

Perhaps I am being a bit defensive because I feel miserable with how hard it is to get v10 finished, and I do not want the pressure of people relying on me for something that is very hard to juggle. It is really difficult to wake up each day to an inbox full of over-night requests, 8 active projects to work on, 8 staff to manage and train, dealing with the fact that most people wanting our products and services have dreams far out-stripping means and will, and the Composr project to drive forward – it's very stressful.

You're making assumptions of my expectations of Composr just like you make assumptions on what I'm expecting my site to be.

You're tone is getting very accusatory here. I am actually doing what most product managers would not do, by avoiding over-selling things. I was  addressing that I have seen a lot of posts recently where different people have been assuming v10 will make everything super-easy, people talking about how all their dreams will come true and so on, and thus thought it apt to take the opportunity to calibrate expectations and provide some advice.

I think providing advice is important. You call it talking-down, but I think I am an authority, managing lots of ocPortal projects, knowing about development, having a lot of qualifications and experience, and knowing about ocPortal/Composr plans and intentions and so on. Would you prefer I just don't give advice? I know I could be more conversational with each individual user rather than writing mini-essays where I try and address many people in one go, but where can I find the time to do that when I need to move Composr forward, and bring in enough work for staff salaries, and do all the other things I have to do? Instead of going off at me, perhaps you can provide some practical advice on how I could manage things better, ways we could bring in more revenue to increase investment, and so on.
You accused other people in the community with the same, and I certainly don't see that, at least not compared to other communities which can be outright hostile.

As for UI and documentation, we have on many occasions put out invitations for people to make comments and suggestions. Some users are very good at bring in little issues that irk them, and generally we get those fixed right away (either as a v9 fix, or for v10). But generally people just say they vaguely don't like things; and quite honestly I think most of this is because it is virtually impossible to create a direct UI/instructions to build the unique projects each user wants to build. For where things can be made better, it would be far better if you could provide detailed feasible feedback, like opening tutorials, saving as a PDF, then using a PDF annotator to mark what parts of the tutorial you don't like. We can then act on that feedback. As for extending documentation, we just recently posted about what our strategy has been for this, and what will be, tieing in external contributions, etc, so it's not like we're ignoring people. But if we get direct feedback we can work on we will.


Become a fan of ocPortal on Facebook or add me as a friend. Add me on on Twitter.
Was I helpful?
  • If not, please let us know how we can do better (please try and propose any bigger ideas in such a way that they are fundable and scalable).
  • If so, please let others know about ocPortal whenever you see the opportunity.
  • If my reply is too Vulcan or expressed too much in business-strategy terms, and not particularly personal, I apologise. As a company & project maintainer, time is very limited to me, so usually when I write a reply I try and make it generic advice to all readers. I'm also naturally a joined-up thinker, so I always express my thoughts in combined business and technical terms. I recognise not everyone likes that, don't let my Vulcan-thinking stop you enjoying ocPortal on fun personal projects.
  • If my response can inspire a community tutorial, that's a great way of giving back to the project as a user.
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Posted
Item has a rating of 5 (Liked by mythusLiked by RichTLiked by KingBast)  
Rating:
#107443
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Honoured member

You're out of line, Pollard.

Chris has gone out of his way to address and resolve many "layman" requests time and time again for our site - free of charge.

He has also fixed numerous issues that were brought up immediately, to better the overall community.

His work is always thorough and precise and he takes the time to put color around all of his communication to provide complete understanding.

Considering this is his playpen, you might want to check the attitude at the door.
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