HTML Logo by World Wide Web Consortium (www.w3.org). Click to learn more about our commitment to accessibility and standards.

Moving forward with Composr

ocPortal has been relaunched as Composr CMS, which is now in beta. ocPortal 9 will be superseded by Composr 10.

Head over to compo.sr for our new site, and to our migration roadmap. Existing ocPortal member accounts have been mirrored.


My Beef

Login / Search

 [ Join | More ]
 Add topic 
Posted
Rating:
#70396 (In Topic #14900)
Avatar

Fan in action

I know it 's beta, but I want to use schema.org

It's been a long weekend and I'll admit that I've had enough. I want to migrate a client from a 'traditional' php/MySQL environment to a CMS based system and thought that ocPortal would suit, but things HAVE TO WORK! I accept that 'free' sofware will always carry a burden of "I don't know or I'm not sure" in respect of support, but I am getting very disallusioned regarding what I consider to be a simple request that the software accepts an RFC 822 compliant date
and cannot handle it correctly. I'm now seriously looking at going back to a basic Joomla environment and having to put up with the *cr*p that the upgrades for that framework entails. My time is MY TIME and I do not get paid for my testing / investigative work and whilst I support initiatives like ocPortal, they have to work! I accept that I'm working with beta software, but fixes sould work. So far nothing supplied has done! (NOT ACCEPTABLE!) I do believe that this is a good framework, because everything is integrated, but is has to work; and for me it isn't so far. Getting p**sed off, George
Back to the top
 
Posted
Rating:
#70397
Avatar

I really am truly sorry when there are bugs, but how much exactly are you paying for this premium support service you expect, or how much have you paid for warrantied software that has been developed meticulously to a formal specification? My time is my time too, and I don't get paid for fixing ocPortal bugs, or developing ocPortal – in fact I typically work 100 hour weeks, and have done so for years, donating code that might not be perfect, but is still a leading product in the industry. At least the work you are doing is directly tied to the requirements of a paying client. The moral of the story is that for commercial work you have to budget within the project either for warrantied software, or for a commercial support service, or for working inside Open Source communities. A lot of clients cannot afford that, but if that's the case then it's not a financially viable project.


Become a fan of ocPortal on Facebook or add me as a friend. Add me on on Twitter.
Was I helpful?
  • If not, please let us know how we can do better (please try and propose any bigger ideas in such a way that they are fundable and scalable).
  • If so, please let others know about ocPortal whenever you see the opportunity.
  • If my reply is too Vulcan or expressed too much in business-strategy terms, and not particularly personal, I apologise. As a company & project maintainer, time is very limited to me, so usually when I write a reply I try and make it generic advice to all readers. I'm also naturally a joined-up thinker, so I always express my thoughts in combined business and technical terms. I recognise not everyone likes that, don't let my Vulcan-thinking stop you enjoying ocPortal on fun personal projects.
  • If my response can inspire a community tutorial, that's a great way of giving back to the project as a user.
Back to the top
 
Posted
Rating:
#70402
Avatar

Chris works so hard on ocPortal. He, like the rest of us, is very passionate about keeping ocPortal maintained as open-source software so that others may benefit from its unmatched feature set and powers. But, ocPortal is ultimately maintained by a commercial company and that has to be our priority.

While we love adding features to ocPortal, it's not something we can commit weeks of development to – it doesn't bring in any income, and there are salaries to pay. If our regular users started recommending us for custom development work, or clubbed together to pay for feature development (you can find prices in our Tracker), then more time could be devoted to the ocPortal releases.

It's a testament to Chris' programming skills that ocPortal is such a phenomenal free open-source application. As Chris said, we are really sorry for any bugs that arise, but we hope for constructive feedback from our beta testers in order to quash any bugs in the software.


Like ocPortal on Facebook:
Back to the top
 
Posted
Rating:
#70404
Avatar

Community saint

I would like to add as well that as you mentioned, you are using a beta version. In doing so you must ether commit to putting up with the bugs that come with beta versions and/or volunteer to help work out the bugs which includes testing fixes.

If you are not prepared to do that then I really do not see any grounds for complaint. Especially when the developers are so quick to jump on bugs you report and work with you to fix them.
Back to the top
 
Posted
Rating:
#70408
Avatar

Community saint

skygod said

…but I am getting very disallusioned regarding what I consider to be a simple request that the software accepts an RFC 822 compliant date…
and how many other CMS' (or any software for that matter) will add every user request they get. None!

I'm very surprised Chris adds as much as he does as quickly as he does. His responsiveness gives me significantly more confidence in ocPortal then I would otherwise have.

And if RFC 822 date compliance is critical to your client and is basically what's going to put you off ocPortal, then why not let the client know. Tell them ocPortal covers 99% (or what ever) of their needs and that the missing RFC 822 date compliance can be added for a small cost. And while other software may have RFC 822 support, highlight with other problems, like long term maintenance, they have, and let your client decide.

Do you have a Samsung Galaxy S / Galaxy S II ? If so, why not check out my ScreenFree FM Radio .
Back to the top
 
Posted
Rating:
#70409
Avatar

Community saint

I want to know where and with what open source CMS product do you find anything comparable to the ocPortal package and what and where do you find this kind of support staff and community, let alone access to the chief architect of the system?

Here users are encouraged and invited to engage with them in sorting out questions and problems as well as share new developed ways to do things with ocPortal?

ocPortal is unique in that way and Chris and his staff are WAY GENEROUS to interact so freely and share some of the vast knowledge with the newly initiated ocPortal user right along with the seasoned ocP veteran. They do this, I believe, to produce a marvelous assemblage of software solutions for widely varying CMS needs. I think they are also succeeding with their efforts to make ocPortal the best free and open source CMS available out there.

I must also say that I see a great deal of professionalism coupled with an exceptional patience shown under, what must be, big daily pressure. All this is done while also looking after the daily needs and pressures of building and supporting their paying commercial clients. We are sitting in a very enviable position and 'Daddy' has been very nice to us all non-paying users…

As users we might be impatient to get OUR PROBLEM attended to right away on OUR DEADLINE. I am thinking that we have come to depend on the GENEROUS support granted too much.

How many times have you waited for Chris to answer (and can you believe that it is Chris, very often, who is replying to help you solve your problem!!!! - This is in no way meant to show less thankfulness to other ocP staffs help, who also will jump in our time of need!!!!)

We may sometimes exhibit a spoiled brat child attitude when we think we are being ignored or not helped faster or more efficiently but still Chris and his staff keep the giant ocPortal ball rolling and, my observation is, get back to us sooner than later and throw out that lifesaver …and we are rescued from our doom(!). Rescued, till we cry help again!

I can't, not mention the many member-users who are so involved in the fight to keep and make ocPortal the wonder product that it is. What a wonderful community this is and I am so amazed that it is so much that way.

I think that Brian had the cloud of inspiration over his head when we said,

Brian Hay said

I would like to add as well that as you mentioned, you are using a beta version. In doing so you must ether commit to putting up with the bugs that come with beta versions and/or volunteer to help work out the bugs which includes testing fixes.

If you are not prepared to do that then I really do not see any grounds for complaint. Especially when the developers are so quick to jump on bugs you report and work with you to fix them.

I have a live site and a development site. The smart thing is to wait till the final version comes out before upgrading or else use the last stable version so that the bumps in the road are smaller and have probably already been addressed.

Skygod, I suspect that the pressures have gotten to you. Remember how good ocPortal was to get you to download and invest your time in discovering what ocPortal is and what it can do? ocPortal is still that good and there are people who are willing to invest their time to help where they can.

You ship is not going down, don't jump into the dark waters of what you've tried before and were convinced to leave because of what ocPortal can do for you as your CMS.

All the best whatever you decide.


Art and Imagination
of David L Friend

http://davidlfriend.com

  My Art Gallery
powered by ocPortal
Back to the top
 
Posted
Rating:
#70413
Avatar

Community saint

I'm not going to add more other than just making my voice heard as I must when negativity is fired at ocPortal. Chris, Robbie, Brian, temp1024 and friendly have collectively said all that needs to be said. One can hunt high and low but in the opensource arena you will not find any CMS/Webdev platform (and believe me as I've tried basically all of them at some point) that compares to quality, features and above all responsiveness from the authors. My hat has been off for years to Chris and Co. for all they do and give back to us.  :thumbs: to ocPortal!

Need something changed for a paying client? Ask ocProducts for a quote to make that happen…done.

"no violence, no hate, no pain, no enemies
just peace, unity, tolerance and love" - The Beloved

OCP V7 | Advocating monetary reform - FreeOurMoney

Need OCP friendly hosting? Look no further:
Web Hosting, Reseller Hosting, and Dedicated Servers w/cPanel - Elief! - Official hosting partner for ocPortal.
Back to the top
 
Posted
Rating:
#70417
Avatar

Community saint

Figure I'll throw in my 2 cents.

I've been frustrated, disgruntled and downright grumpy at times since I started using ocPortal. But, in the end, though I don't always agree with the decisions made, I think Chris and the staff handle themselves admirably and each day I use ocPortal, I become a bit less grumpy.

ocPortal offers a great free solution today and, based on the staff's responsiveness and Chris's vision, an ever-improving product down the road.

I may still get grumpy at ocPortal when things aren't working the way I think they should but I'm sold on the product and the people behind it.

Bob
Back to the top
 
Posted
Rating:
#70423
Avatar

Community saint

SoccerDad said

…..One can hunt high and low but in the opensource arena you will not find any CMS/Webdev platform (and believe me as I've tried basically all of them at some point) that compares to quality, features and above all responsiveness from the authors…..

And by a very slim chance you do, do share with us because I believe the ocProducts team (beats having to type all those names) will match it and improve even better.


BobS said

I've been frustrated, disgruntled and downright grumpy at times since I started using ocPortal…..

We all know the feeling. Think most of us have been there and still are. There's a right to be grumpy… I think I've pull most of my hair (not much left there) trying to understand coding. However, if you notice the sites in the "Introduce Yourself > Post Your Site" forum, many of these designers have worked through times of troubles and tribulations with all sorts of coding. None have demanded an expectation. And from what I see, I hope to see your site there soon. :)

Eric DeMars . com
My electronic portfolio and personal site. Uses ocPortal!
Back to the top
 
Posted
Rating:
#70425
Avatar

Community saint

Where to begin….lol

Let's start from the top!

skygod said

It's been a long weekend and I'll admit that I've had enough. I want to migrate a client from a "traditional" php/MySQL environment to a CMS based system and thought that ocPortal would suit, but things HAVE TO WORK!

Long weekends do suck when trying to figure out how to get something to work or fixed and such, eh? We've all been in your shoes. Don't worry. We know how you feel.

It's funny that you do put "I know it's beta…" and then expect the whole thing to work. Brian summed it all up nicely (WTG Brian).

skygod said

I accept that 'free' sofware will always carry a burden of "I don't know or I'm not sure" in respect of support, but I am getting very disallusioned regarding what I consider to be a simple request that the software accepts an RFC 822 compliant date and cannot handle it correctly.

Keyword to point out is "request". We've all made "simple requests" as we envision it. Some requests are simple and support will be given. Some requests are not as simple and support will still be given. Some requests are not simple and it will turn into paid support depending on what you request needed to be done. But it all comes down to that one word…. request. We all wish at times that our requests can be full-filled, but not always do we get what we want.

skygod said

I'm now seriously looking at going back to a basic Joomla environment and having to put up with the *cr*p that the upgrades for that framework entails. My time is MY TIME and I do not get paid for my testing / investigative work and whilst I support initiatives like ocPortal, they have to work!

It hurts me to say that your words go both ways. Chris and team's "time is THEIR TIME" and they aren't getting paid. And as for the rest of this community who've created code, themes, support, etc. and distributed it to the rest of the community (and perhaps even put into future releases) can also say "My time is MY TIME and I do not get paid for my testing / investigative work".

skygod said

I accept that I'm working with beta software, but fixes sould work. So far nothing supplied has done! (NOT ACCEPTABLE!) I do believe that this is a good framework, because everything is integrated, but is has to work; and for me it isn't so far. Getting p**sed off,

I'm not going to even bother with this quote except that I "request" (which means you don't have to) that you look over it and see your own flaws in the logic of it all.


Best of luck to you, skygod. This community has been nothing but kind to you and attempting to get what you want covered. Bugs are bound to happen. Fixes will be made if necessary if it has to do with the product itself. SOMETIMES, fixes create more problems. You have to patient….patience is a virtue.

If you decide to go back to JOOMLA, I hope you give them the same type of respect in their product as you have done here (in your initial post)…  especially in beta releases.

Eric DeMars . com
My electronic portfolio and personal site. Uses ocPortal!
Back to the top
 
Posted
Rating:
#70430
Avatar

Community saint

In hopes you "weather the storm" and stick with ocPortal….

Here's some fun off-topic having to do with your subject title!

Anyone remember this? Kinda shows my age!

Eric DeMars . com
My electronic portfolio and personal site. Uses ocPortal!
Back to the top
 
Posted
Rating:
#70439
Avatar

Community saint

Dear 'p**sed off, George',

You certainly stirred up a hornet's nest with your 'beef'.

To me it is inconceivable that you should use open source FREE software for a paid client project, and then stamp your petulant little foot when you can't have an RFC822 compliant date system working the way you want it to, something that is apparently pivotal to your 'build'.

You give the impression of being a knowledgeable sort of bloke, so why not concentrate on this one aspect, come up with a solution, and then offer it to the ocPortal community as your contribution to the developement of a superior product?

There's a vast gap between being 'p**sed off' and being 'p**sed on', and I suspect none of these responses to your initial post would have carried the same venom had you not made such an issue of YOUR (valuable) TIME!

Be Happy!

 :thumbs:

Take my advice. I'm not using it!

View my working ocPortal site (version 9.x.x) at Anglo-Indian Portal
Back to the top
 
Posted
Rating:
#70445
Avatar

Fan in action

Okay,

It was an extemely long day yesterday with time in front of the screen exceeding 18 hours and I implemented several fixes which didn't resolve my issue as well as working on regular maintenance of other sites.

Apologies for the rant, but I had told the prospective client that I believed I had found a solution that could fulfil his requirement.

Anyhow, went for the meeting this morning and I was shocked to find that using Microsoft Exploder, the date showed correctly.

Now I'm completely confused as I cannot now determine if the pudDate is being processed client side or server side. ( Ill cover this in my post on this subject )

My rant about the RFC is that I took a great amount of care in making the initial feed that I am using to ensure that it was 100% compliant with the rss and atom specifications which meant ensuring a RFC822 compliant pubDate.

I DO care about the code I produce and have been turned down for work when I say that I only produce W3C compliant work rather than utilising non compliant yet operational code.

This is why I was so interested in ocPortal in the first place as it will support html5 (experimental) validation and incorporate schema.org semantic markup.

This would give my prospective client an advantage over his competitors.



Anyhow, in summation :

SORRY!

It was a very steep learning curve in only 3 days and my frustration came out in a post.

I DO appreciate the assistance that I have received here, but I WILL be a PiTa when I find something that does not seem to work according to published standards.

I really HATE that xx Errors / xx Warnings in the bottom of my browser and just want to see the green tickbox with 0 errors / 0 warnings for every page on a site that I maintain.
Back to the top
 
Posted
Rating:
#70446
Avatar

Community saint

:thumbs: Thanks for taking the time to return and explain.

"no violence, no hate, no pain, no enemies
just peace, unity, tolerance and love" - The Beloved

OCP V7 | Advocating monetary reform - FreeOurMoney

Need OCP friendly hosting? Look no further:
Web Hosting, Reseller Hosting, and Dedicated Servers w/cPanel - Elief! - Official hosting partner for ocPortal.
Back to the top
 
Posted
Rating:
#70455
Avatar

Community saint

I concur SD's sentiment. May you continue with your 'successes'.

Imagine IE (I assume you meant Internet Explorer) coming to your rescue at your meeting! But which version - 6, 7, 8 or 9?

  :'(  

Take my advice. I'm not using it!

View my working ocPortal site (version 9.x.x) at Anglo-Indian Portal
Back to the top
 
Posted
Rating:
#70458
Avatar

Thanks, very much hope you stick around and make more sites using ocP and yes – continue to report any issues you find and insist on fixes ;). To be fair this was also a v7.0.x bug, and nothing to do with it v7.1.x being a beta. Being on a very independent island at GMT+0, timezone issues are one of those things we're not so likely to notice ourselves.


Become a fan of ocPortal on Facebook or add me as a friend. Add me on on Twitter.
Was I helpful?
  • If not, please let us know how we can do better (please try and propose any bigger ideas in such a way that they are fundable and scalable).
  • If so, please let others know about ocPortal whenever you see the opportunity.
  • If my reply is too Vulcan or expressed too much in business-strategy terms, and not particularly personal, I apologise. As a company & project maintainer, time is very limited to me, so usually when I write a reply I try and make it generic advice to all readers. I'm also naturally a joined-up thinker, so I always express my thoughts in combined business and technical terms. I recognise not everyone likes that, don't let my Vulcan-thinking stop you enjoying ocPortal on fun personal projects.
  • If my response can inspire a community tutorial, that's a great way of giving back to the project as a user.
Back to the top
 
Posted
Rating:
#70473
Avatar

Community saint

In times of a real crisis, I think you could also open a free ticket with one-on-one support from ocProducts as well. However, I'm sure we could all benefit from it in the end. But with boiling point frustrations, it might be good to go with opening a support ticket. I've done it in the past I do remember and Chris was a BIG HELP!

Weekend is over. Fresh start! Good to see you back posting as well (agreeing with the others here).  :thumbs:

Eric DeMars . com
My electronic portfolio and personal site. Uses ocPortal!
Back to the top
 
There are too many online users to list.
Control functions:

Quick reply   Contract

Your name:
Your message: