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Moving forward with Composr

ocPortal has been relaunched as Composr CMS, which is now in beta. ocPortal 9 will be superseded by Composr 10.

Head over to compo.sr for our new site, and to our migration roadmap. Existing ocPortal member accounts have been mirrored.


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Posted
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#27275 (In Topic #6285)
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Help...how do you add subcategories for hierarchal structure?

Okay, I'll bite and be the resident idiot. I want to create a hierarchal news category and subcategory structure (e.g., Dogs as a category of News, with each breed as a sub-category), and for the LIFE of me, I can't figure out how to do something this simple. My biz partner and I have downloaded the free OCP version, to sample prior to purchase, but we are having no success with this particular question.

Also, 2nd question - if a user - let's say, Jane - is logged in, and clicks on add news on the index page, and attempts to utilize "Jane's personal category" as the Main category for her news item, when she attempts to upload (add) the news item, you get an error message saying "You do not have the specific permission, 'Submit to categories belonging to other members' even though the user IS posting to his/her own category. Can somebody enlighten me as to why this happens? You can select the personal category in "categories" but not "Category." Needless to say, this is frustrating. And if we can't figure it out - if it's counter-intuitive to my partner and me - I worry about how intuitive or easy-to-use my users will find it, as they are NOT sophisticated users….

I would appreciate some help, thanks in advance,

Hitch




I always ask myself: WWWWD?, or, "What Would Wonder Woman Do?"
How come we have Yahoo IM, AIM, ICQ, you name it, but no field for Skype contact info?
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Posted
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#27282
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Hi,

Not silly questions, because you're right on both fronts.
There is no support for hierarchical news, and infact this is the first time I was aware someone might want it.
However, your second problem is definitely a bug:
ocPortal - Entry: Bug when submitting news to a personal category


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  • If my reply is too Vulcan or expressed too much in business-strategy terms, and not particularly personal, I apologise. As a company & project maintainer, time is very limited to me, so usually when I write a reply I try and make it generic advice to all readers. I'm also naturally a joined-up thinker, so I always express my thoughts in combined business and technical terms. I recognise not everyone likes that, don't let my Vulcan-thinking stop you enjoying ocPortal on fun personal projects.
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Posted
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#27297
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No subcategories?

Chris Graham said

Hi,

Not silly questions, because you're right on both fronts.
There is no support for hierarchical news, and infact this is the first time I was aware someone might want it.
However, your second problem is definitely a bug:
/site/pg/catalogues/entry/323


First, thank you for your rapid response. Second, thanks for the bug fix.

However, your response on the subcategories just doomed us. :( I'm really surprised that nobody else has ever asked for it, but perhaps the majority of your purchasers/webmasters really are seeking something more akin to Myspace...my biz partner and I are looking for an article-centric CMS that primarily manages user/member-contributed articles and blogs; secondly provides a fully-integrated (user-management & subscriptions) forum product; third provides an integrated (membership-based, shared log-in) classifeds system. (And, NO, we don't expect it remotely for free.) I had thought I could achieve that with OCPortal by integrating VBull and tying 68Classifieds to Vbull using the existing bridge mod that 68C supports. (So that all three systems/programs would use VBull's user management functionality).

But if a site has articles about hundreds of topics/categories, how on earth can they be decently managed, either by users or by the Admin, if you can't lump topics together by master category? As the example I already used: News>Dog News>Breeds> followed by, what, over 1,000 breeds of dogs? With other categories, say, "Dog Show Results," "Obedience Trial Results," "Pet News." How could that be managed, if every breed is a top-level Category? A Menu on the Index page listing every single breed? How would Susie User find articles about other Bulldogs? Equally importantly, does this mean that if Susie User wanted to post an article in a category called "Obedience Trial Results," she would have to scroll past 500 breed names before she got to the "O's" in the category fields in the article creation page? I'm having difficulty wrapping my head around how the article management would function sans the ability to sub-categorize articles/news/blogs. The fact that you can select multiple categories, however, is fantastic, and a feature you should DEFINITELY keep - it's one of the issues I keep running into with other software I have evaluated over the last six months, so you get brownie points for that.

I would also recommend that you consider - for a newer version - a grossly simplifed User Control Panel feature that is actually a separate interface - not the Admin interface with certain functions simply "turned off" for all intents and purposes. I don't think that there is a prayer in Hades that my users, who are technically challenged, will ever figure out that to "blog," you log-in; go to "Content Management," click on News, then click on Add News, then have to select "Jane's personal category" as well as a category CALLED "blogs" in order to have her content listed as a blog. And the rationale for the two separate fields - Category versus Categories - is just not clearly explicated. I can figure out - somewhat - what you were thinking, but Susie User is going to get discouraged and LEAVE. It's too many steps, and it's too counterintuitive for unsophisticated users. If I was going to use OCPortal to accommodate both blogs and articles, I would literally

  • "clone" or copy the News module;
  • fix or pre-set the master "Category" category to "Blogs" (in the add news function)
  • leave the second "categories" field as user-selectable so people can "tag" their blogs;
  • have a direct link from the index page called "write blogs" or "blog" to the cloned news module, bypassing the Content Management nonsense, and
  • I would also change the image upload options to simply "inline," because the other two options are too confusing for the level of users I have.
I'm not trying to critcize the program per se. Overall, I think it's a good system, but I think that it was primarily designed to be administered by webmasters, not their users or members. I suspect that part of the reason it is not more successful is due to the complexity of the end-user interface. For the technologically challenged, it's daunting, and my type of user doesn't want to think that hard. Let's face it - in general, people posting on the internet want to have FUN, they want it to be easy. Part of the reason that Subdreamer, ArticleLive and ArticleManager 2.0 are so widespread is the super-easy user interfaces, even though they are limited in other ways (in two instances, severely limited).

I appreciate that you are trying to create a comprehensive portal/CMS product here - I genuinely do. I believe, though, that you may need to re-envision or reconceptualize the user-contributed content interfaces and mechanisms. Sadly, for my users, I think that it's just too hard.

Thanks,

Hitch







Last edit: by Chris Graham

I always ask myself: WWWWD?, or, "What Would Wonder Woman Do?"
How come we have Yahoo IM, AIM, ICQ, you name it, but no field for Skype contact info?
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Posted
Rating:
#27304
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Honoured member

Sorry!

Sorry, :dry:did not mean to get snarky, but that bug with the forum posting is seriously annoying. FYI, it happens every single time if you "preview" your post more than once. The first time, the post is fine; but as soon as you preview it a second time, the code shows up instead of characters.

I got frustrated because I'd spent a lot of time on the response, and vented, mea culpa. I'm going to talk to my biz partner about continuing to try OCP as a "fit." Would it be possible to add sub-categorization, or do you have a viable alternative suggestion for managing large numbers of related categories aside from hierarchal structuring?

Thanks,

Hitch


I always ask myself: WWWWD?, or, "What Would Wonder Woman Do?"
How come we have Yahoo IM, AIM, ICQ, you name it, but no field for Skype contact info?
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Posted
Rating:
#27317
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First things first, please let me apologise for this WYSIWYG-editor problem you've experienced. It seems to be a new problem that has come up in one of our patches, but is now fixed.


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Was I helpful?
  • If not, please let us know how we can do better (please try and propose any bigger ideas in such a way that they are fundable and scalable).
  • If so, please let others know about ocPortal whenever you see the opportunity.
  • If my reply is too Vulcan or expressed too much in business-strategy terms, and not particularly personal, I apologise. As a company & project maintainer, time is very limited to me, so usually when I write a reply I try and make it generic advice to all readers. I'm also naturally a joined-up thinker, so I always express my thoughts in combined business and technical terms. I recognise not everyone likes that, don't let my Vulcan-thinking stop you enjoying ocPortal on fun personal projects.
  • If my response can inspire a community tutorial, that's a great way of giving back to the project as a user.
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Posted
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#27319
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Honoured member

Chris Graham said

First things first, please let me apologise for this WYSIWYG-editor problem you've experienced. It seems to be a new problem that has come up in one of our patches, but is now fixed.

Hi, thanks - what do we need to do to fix it on our test site as we're having the same problem there?

Hitch



I always ask myself: WWWWD?, or, "What Would Wonder Woman Do?"
How come we have Yahoo IM, AIM, ICQ, you name it, but no field for Skype contact info?
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Posted
Rating:
#27322
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Community saint


I run http://otakuplayground.com and am hopping to make themes and other things for ocportal even though I no longer use it for otakuplayground.com I still love it and feel it could go far with the right help. It needs themes and needs people to advertise for it.
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Posted
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#27323
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Honoured member

amichan said

I think this might be it.
/si.../324/index.php&root=7

Yes, got it, thank you Amy.

Hitch




Last edit: by Hitch

I always ask myself: WWWWD?, or, "What Would Wonder Woman Do?"
How come we have Yahoo IM, AIM, ICQ, you name it, but no field for Skype contact info?
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Posted
Rating:
#27325
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Right, now that the bug is out of the way, let's get down to business. Thanks for your patience so far.

The model of a "article submission site" isn't really one which ocPortal has absorbed yet, and it didn't occur to me until this morning that it was these kinds of site that would indeed require the more complex article structure that you referred to. The ocPortal news system was originally only a news system, and was never really designed to hold massive collections of articles. Typically we'd expect that "content articles" would actually be made as pages of the website, and be linked to via the navigation (the menu, for instance) – these article submission sites are, from our point of view, differ from the norm. It's quite right for you to want this feature, as clearly it's the right design for your type of site.

If you'd like to get hierarchical news, I'd advise you consider hiring someone to modify ocPortal. ocPortal's code is fully documented and Open Source, so you should be able to find a PHP programmer without much trouble :).

go to "Content Management," click on News, then click on Add News

We wouldn't expect this either – typically there'd be a news block on the front page with an add link underneath it. Which, of course, for your site type isn't something appropriate, due to the news being so dispersed.

And the rationale for the two separate fields - Category versus Categories - is just not clearly explicated.

Bang on – I never realised this until now, so we'll fix it in our next patch release.

fix or pre-set the master "Category" category to "Blogs" (in the add news function)

Again, bang on. I thought it did this already, but you're right.

have a direct link from the index page called "write blogs" or "blog" to the cloned news module, bypassing the Content Management nonsense

We wouldn't want to put this on there by default because it's rather assumptive, but I kind of agree – we'll put one from the Personal Zone menu, by default. One can of course put whatever one likes on ocPortal's menus, so nothing is set in stone.

I would also change the image upload options to simply "inline," because the other two options are too confusing for the level of users I have.

This could be changed by editing the 'ATTACHMENT' template.

Thanks for your feedback.


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  • If so, please let others know about ocPortal whenever you see the opportunity.
  • If my reply is too Vulcan or expressed too much in business-strategy terms, and not particularly personal, I apologise. As a company & project maintainer, time is very limited to me, so usually when I write a reply I try and make it generic advice to all readers. I'm also naturally a joined-up thinker, so I always express my thoughts in combined business and technical terms. I recognise not everyone likes that, don't let my Vulcan-thinking stop you enjoying ocPortal on fun personal projects.
  • If my response can inspire a community tutorial, that's a great way of giving back to the project as a user.
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Posted
Rating:
#27326
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With regard to this bug –

The bug fix I put on our database is the major bug here, but your long post did actually catch a few other issues. The attached replacement for sources/comcode_text.php should fix them all.

Attachment
» Download: comcode_text.zip (14 Kb, 202 downloads so far)


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  • If my reply is too Vulcan or expressed too much in business-strategy terms, and not particularly personal, I apologise. As a company & project maintainer, time is very limited to me, so usually when I write a reply I try and make it generic advice to all readers. I'm also naturally a joined-up thinker, so I always express my thoughts in combined business and technical terms. I recognise not everyone likes that, don't let my Vulcan-thinking stop you enjoying ocPortal on fun personal projects.
  • If my response can inspire a community tutorial, that's a great way of giving back to the project as a user.
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Posted
Rating:
#27327
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Community saint

Sorry to get off topic but I did not think ocPortal was open source.

I run http://otakuplayground.com and am hopping to make themes and other things for ocportal even though I no longer use it for otakuplayground.com I still love it and feel it could go far with the right help. It needs themes and needs people to advertise for it.
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Posted
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#27328
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ocPortal meets the official Open Source definition. It does not, however, meet the 'Free Software' definition.


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  • If my reply is too Vulcan or expressed too much in business-strategy terms, and not particularly personal, I apologise. As a company & project maintainer, time is very limited to me, so usually when I write a reply I try and make it generic advice to all readers. I'm also naturally a joined-up thinker, so I always express my thoughts in combined business and technical terms. I recognise not everyone likes that, don't let my Vulcan-thinking stop you enjoying ocPortal on fun personal projects.
  • If my response can inspire a community tutorial, that's a great way of giving back to the project as a user.
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Posted
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#27329
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Community saint

Umm vector linux already confused me once with that so don't you start on that.
For the Newbies or windows users here I know you mean by free software is free as in free speach not free as in cost.
I just have to say there are infact 2 definitions of free software the one by the linux and open source world and the other by the main stream world.
The main stream world it means things that you do not have to pay for but are not allowed to change or modify also called freeware.
The linux and open source world it is free to change and make it your own.

So what kind of open source is yours because uptell now I did not know there was another kind of open source I mean if it open source the code is open for every one.
Unless you mean open is freely available in order to change it to make it suit your needs and or make mods for it but are not allowed to distribute the product as your own, which if that is the case IPB would fall under that as well, actually most software would infact, all but the ones that use zend, or icon cube or have restrictions on that sort of thing.


Last edit: by amichan

I run http://otakuplayground.com and am hopping to make themes and other things for ocportal even though I no longer use it for otakuplayground.com I still love it and feel it could go far with the right help. It needs themes and needs people to advertise for it.
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Posted
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#27330
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I think I messed up what I said – possibly ocPortal is 'free software' in the 'Linux sense', but I can't say I have studied it properly to confirm that. I have however made sure we meet the Open Source Definition.
You're right about this being complex Ami. Different people take different viewpoints on things. However, what I am saying is from the technical legal point of view, as well as the simple "you have the source code" point of view.


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Posted
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#27332
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Community saint

I think you are right in that it is open source but not free software. I made another topic about it.
ocPortal - View topic: open source and free software.

I run http://otakuplayground.com and am hopping to make themes and other things for ocportal even though I no longer use it for otakuplayground.com I still love it and feel it could go far with the right help. It needs themes and needs people to advertise for it.
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Posted
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#27333
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Honoured member

If you'd like to get hierarchical news, I'd advise you consider hiring someone to modify ocPortal. ocPortal's code is fully documented and Open Source, so you should be able to find a PHP programmer without much trouble :).
Yes…finding a PHP programmer is like falling off a log, but finding someone already familiar with OCP is less simple, unless of course you/OCPare offering? (BTW…I'm sorry, maybe I'm just an old cow, but every time I type or think "OCP," all I can think of is Peter Weller in a big honkin' cyborg suit in "Robocop," working for "Omni Consumer Products," and I get the S&G's - which is shorthand for a phrase that I know that you know.)

With regard to the other changes, excellent. (Category items)

We wouldn't want to put this on there by default because it's rather assumptive, but I kind of agree - we'll put one from the Personal Zone menu, by default. One can of course put whatever one likes on ocPortal's menus, so nothing is set in stone.
Yes, actually, I was too hasty in this; my suggestion was poor. I think, rather, a simple selection box for "blogs" in the Content Management Section, which is (as we previously discussed) naught more than a clone of the article template, with "Blog" as a fixed Master or Main Category, would be more than adequate. Of course, once you do that, you know that you'll have some users who will COMPLAIN that it's stupid to have two modules, but you cannot please everyone (she said sadly, sighing loudly as she did so). Theoretically, the more sophisticated users could use the News/Article module for both, simply selecting different categories each time (using "Blog" for blogs, and "ABCD" for whatever category their news falls into, to be ungrammatical), and your "baby" users could cheerfully use both. Compromise is a wonderful thing, eh?

By the way - can one edit the "Help" blocks/modules/content containers that show up on the right-hand-side of the CP pages? Arguably, if these are webmaster-editable, we could tailor explanations about various and sundry fields for the comprehension level of our users. (Just a thought). On the other hand, that might be addressed by:

This could be changed by editing the 'ATTACHMENT' template.
Indeed, I had cogitated upon this as an answer to the inline/island/download "issue" for my users, who are, bless their hearts, errrr…technologically challenged, in lieu of an editable "help" page.

I would also be interested in your response to Amy vis-a-vis your definition of "open source?" Just out of curiosity,

Regards,

Hitch

P.S. - The spell checker for the forum does not work. It spell-checks…but when complete, even if you select "save," it does not make the changes in the actual post, and the pop-up does not put itself away. Just FYI.






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How come we have Yahoo IM, AIM, ICQ, you name it, but no field for Skype contact info?
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Posted
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#27334
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Community saint

whats a vis-a-vis
I was merely stating what some thing of opensource.

I run http://otakuplayground.com and am hopping to make themes and other things for ocportal even though I no longer use it for otakuplayground.com I still love it and feel it could go far with the right help. It needs themes and needs people to advertise for it.
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Posted
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#27336
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Honoured member

amichan said

whats a vis-a-vis
I was merely stating what some thing of opensource.


Amy:

"Vis-a-vis," which when spelled correctly has the accent over the "a," (I don't know how to access symbols in this editor) means "in relation to" or "as compared with." What I was saying to Chris, in other words, is "I would also be interested in your response to Amy with regard to your definition of 'open source?' " That's what "vis-a-vis" means. ;)

Best regards,

Hitch


I always ask myself: WWWWD?, or, "What Would Wonder Woman Do?"
How come we have Yahoo IM, AIM, ICQ, you name it, but no field for Skype contact info?
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Posted
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#27337
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Community saint

 :offtopic:

Fascinating thread.

vis--vis can be used as an adverb, adjective, preposition or noun:

-preposition
in relation to; compared with;

The definition above is from a Dictionary, but check it out against a Thesaurus (Roget's will do), and you'll be surprised to learn that used as an adjective, vis--vis means completely the opposite!

Similarly, there are varying discussions on "Open Source" versus "Free Software", going back to the early 90's, but Amy's quote from Wikipedia just about sums it up.

P.S. Hitch - I have a Portuguese keyboard that has all the accents, umlats and a myriad of squiggly characters that I couldn't live without these days. Wasn't always so. I resisted changing from my UK keyboard for a long while - several weeks if I remember correctly!

 :lol:

Take my advice. I'm not using it!

View my working ocPortal site (version 9.x.x) at Anglo-Indian Portal
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Posted
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#27338
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Honoured member

Bug Report and response (if you can read it) to Fletch

Fletch said

 <img class="blend inline_image" alt="<img class="blend inline_image" alt="<img class="blend inline_image" alt=":offtopic:" src="http://ocportal.com/themes/default/images/ocf_emoticons/offtopic.png" />" src="http://ocportal.com/themes/default/images/ocf_emoticons/offtopic.png" />" src="/th...cf_emoticons/offtopic.png" /> Fascinating thread.
Are you discussing the actual thread or this digression?
vis--vis can be used as an adverb, adjective, preposition or noun: -preposition in relation to; compared with; The definition above is from a Dictionary, but check it out against a Thesaurus (Roget's will do), and you'll be surprised to learn that used as an adjective, vis--vis means completely the opposite! Similarly, there are varying discussions on "Open Source" versus "Free Software", going back to the early 90's, but Amy's quote from Wikipedia just about sums it up. P.S. Hitch - I have a Portuguese keyboard that has all the accents, umlats and a myriad of squiggly characters that I couldn't live without these days. Wasn't always so. I resisted changing from my UK keyboard for a long while - several weeks if I remember correctly!  <img class="blend inline_image" alt="<img class="blend inline_image" alt="<img class="blend inline_image" alt=":lol:" src="http://ocportal.com/themes/default/images/ocf_emoticons/lol.gif" />" src="http://ocportal.com/themes/default/images/ocf_emoticons/lol.gif" />" src="/th...ges/ocf_emoticons/lol.gif" />
Hello, Fletch: Actually, I am aware of the duality of "vis-a-vis."  However, I am less acquainted with Amy and her particular cradle language, so I thought digressing down the path of adjectives and prepositions would be overkill.  <img class="blend inline_image" alt="<img class="blend inline_image" alt=":)" src="http://ocportal.com/themes/default/images/ocf_emoticons/smile.png" />" src="http://ocportal.com/themes/default/images/ocf_emoticons/smile.png" />  I thought sticking with my specific usage and intend was best, as I took that to be the crux of her question; however, your response is inarguably more complete, and I defer to you. Regards, Hitch


Last edit: by Chris Graham

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